Drabblecast 197 - Death Comes But Twice

[Mikes]

I suppose using the condemned as test subjects was acceptable then, but what about the maid?

But the maid was fine. Remember afterwards she just mentioned having strange dreams.

Besides, he really did kill them, intent or not. Just if the main guy went to Hell (if you go with norm's version) suicide intent or not.

We could go back and ask about the Spanish Inquisition though (didn't expect that, did ya?). They maimed, tortured and killed people. Did they go to heaven or hell? One would argue they went to heaven because they were working for the greater good. If that were the case, this doctor was also working towards the greater good (in his mind, depending if people wanted to live forever is a different matter).

[moonowl]

But the maid was fine. Remember afterwards she just mentioned having strange dreams.

She wasn't fine! She had a terminal case of death 24 hours later.

We could go back and ask about the Spanish Inquisition though (didn't expect that, did ya?).

No one ever does.

They maimed, tortured and killed people. Did they go to heaven or hell?

Well I think the question is irrelevant since I don't believe in either. But assuming a fictional tale here, what happened with "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

[Mikes]

But the maid was fine. Remember afterwards she just mentioned having strange dreams.

She wasn't fine! She had a terminal case of death 24 hours later.

Well OK, granted (and now I'm starting to sound like the doctor in the story), but at the time he didn't know he was doing something wrong. This leads onto my next point....

They maimed, tortured and killed people. Did they go to heaven or hell?

Well I think the question is irrelevant since I don't believe in either. But assuming a fictional tale here, what happened with "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

This is where it starts to be effected by people's individuals' beliefs: Does someone go to hell because they believe they've done something sinful when they haven't, and do bad people go to heaven because they believe they have done nothing wrong?

It comes down to what the listener believes. For me, I tend to think when listening to stories like this people get what they think they deserve, not what popular thinking would impose on them.

If you've seen the Red Dwarf episode Inquisitor where The cat is spared being erased from history because he's met his own low expectations, that's what I mean. If you haven't seen it, you really should. It's awesome.

[moonowl]

If you've seen the Red Dwarf episode Inquisitor where The cat is spared being erased from history because he's met his own low expectations, that's what I mean. If you haven't seen it, you really should. It's awesome.

If I wasn't married and wasn't just some crazy middle aged broad on the interwebs, I'd propose to you for that.

[Etaan]

He drowned, decapitated, horribly poisoned people and hardly anyone blinked an eye. I suppose using the condemned as test subjects was acceptable then, but what about the maid? I don't know if torture or pain is equal to a quick death, even if they don't die or recall. What creeped me out is how it seemed to cause him such little distress.

I think this was a result of his supreme confidence in his results. Sure, the testing on the convicts was repulsive. But it is a very alluring rational that says that, since the method of death wasn't too much worse nor their execution all that much sooner than what they already had scheduled, the risks were worth the potential gains.

By the time he shot the maid, the doctor had already seen a man's severed head reattach itself to its body, had himself already died and returned and had yet to discover the time limitation. As long as his elixir is readily available, there is not such thing as murder. As far as he knew, dying had become a parlor trick.

[Mikes]

If I wasn't married and wasn't just some crazy middle aged broad on the interwebs, I'd propose to you for that.

Aw, shucks

[Praxis]

Does someone go to hell because they believe they've done something sinful when they haven't, and do bad people go to heaven because they believe they have done nothing wrong?

It comes down to what the listener believes. For me, I tend to think when listening to stories like this people get what they think they deserve, not what popular thinking would impose on them.

Terry Pratchett(all hail)'s Discworld books have quite a number of different characters dying and going on to their own afterlife, depending on what they, or their general culture, believe but the funniest description of the perils of going around believing in a god was about missionaries:
given that what someone thinks is going to, and what should, happen to them when they die can actually make it true it was therefore vitally important that on no account should missionaries be allowed to get to 'primitive' tribes, or the tribespeople might end up in hell, rather than the more pleasant afterlife that an innocent mind would assume existed.

Missionaries must also, therefore, be shot on sight just in case they are about to tell you something you are much better off not knowing.

[Mikes]

He he, gotta love terry (whom I'm seeing give a talk this coming April - can't wait). But yeah, as an agnostic, I believe that if there is an afterlife what it offers will be based more on where the person is standing when they die. Or laying. You know what I mean.

After all, the Catholic Church, for one example, have changed their stance on the concept of heaven and hell I don't know how many times. Does this mean that people dying today have a better afterlife than those who died 500 years ago?

[strawman]

I don't see where the Catholic Church changed their stance on heaven and hell; they still believe they exist, don't they? They knocked out Limbo and changed Purgatory, but I don't remember those ever being part of the Creed. All the stuff about indulgences and relics had more to do with culture, and personal piety .

Personally, the idea that people enter the afterlife they expect sounds like drabblecastful thinking to me.

[Mikes]

Purgatory was the big one I was thinking about. Try and convince anyone these days that giving money to the church would shorten your time in purgatory would be a hard sell. Another one would be the use of condoms. If it's a sin, and therefore would stop you going to heaven, why weren't they mentioned in the bible?

I seem to remember somewhere about old sermons explaining the use of purgatory because f the size of heaven. FWIR the actual size of heaven is given in the bible, but it's ridiculously small, like the size of a few football fields. I wonder if we'll be assigned teams when we get there...

[strawman]

Purgatory always made a lot of sense to me. Not the stuff about money. That made sense in a different, very materialistic way. But if there is a Judgement of my life, the choices I made, then it figures there will be awareness and regret, for the suffering I caused or ignored.

It's difficult to conceive that an afterlife would be heavenly if we carried our shame with us. And fire is a logical analogy for such a purification. Probably more accurate than imagining an TSA grope at the pearly gates, anyway.

The stuff about timeframes, not so much. The idea of time in an afterlife just has to be anachronistic.

But don't ask me until I've been there and back. Even then, it's likely my answer would be largely incoherent.

[Mikes]

It's difficult to conceive that an afterlife would be heavenly if we carried our shame with us.

That makes sense. But what doesn't is heaven being full of people. I like (most of) the people I work with, but if I had to spend any more than the required 7.5 hours a day with them I could see myself having a psychotic episode.

[tbaker2500]

d any more than the required 7.5 hours a day with them I could see myself having a psychotic episode.

Is that an out-of-body psychotic episode?

[strawman]

It's fun to speculate. In the How many angels on the head of a pin category, Heaven may be quantum, in which case The Hundred Acre Wood could easily accommodate everyone who ever lived, without them ever running into one another.
But let's get serious here. No matter how liberal your theology, ain't no 'everyone who ever lived' all going to heaven. At least half of em going to dark matter.

[Mikes]

No matter how liberal your theology, ain't no 'everyone who ever lived' all going to heaven. At least half of em going to dark matter.

With all the buddhist, muslim, agnsotic and athiest writers?

[strawman]

I'm pretty sure there won't be any agnsotic and athiest writers. Their convictions will be overturned on a spelling technicality.

[Unblinking]

I almost never, ever say this at Drabblecast but I really disliked this story.

(I'm so sorry if Mary is reading. I'm not a jerk, but I feel the need to be honest. I'll be constructive I promise).

For one, stories with a fantastic element need you to suspend belief. The problem is you can only ask your audience to accept so much.

I just cannot wrap my head around that a man who could make such an elixir via endless trial and error and rigorous process, could miss the fact that it would kill you again in such a short time frame. He even tested different murder and resuscitation methods, found out you had an hour window to use it, etc. Yet, even after what seemed to be vigorous testing, in all his many subjects he never once thought about giving it a few days/weeks and looking at long term effects?

I am also guessing this means he did ALL his trials and deemed it perfectly safe well within 24 hours, before he discovered his own re-death? I find it REALLY hard to imagine he went on such an extensive a bloody resurrection rampage in one day. Also consider we heard in detail his own slow dispatch. Does crazy murdering Lazarus have a time turner? I just don't know how he could have bled himself out, killed his assistant, arranged to experiment on the convicts, then killed all the convicts, discovered the hour administration time limit and showed up at the sponsor's home in the very same day.

Speaking of killing people, suicide will send you to eternal flames and murdering a maid, decapitating convicts and shooting your buddy in the head, well that's going to be OK with the Pearly Gatekeeper? Honestly, I was waiting for the serial killer/scientist to get his in the end (besides a rather plain Christian damnation) but nothing came of that little irony.

Well produced and read as always Larry, good concept and I always love a period piece. I just couldn't buy the plot.

It's been a week or two since I've listened, but I don't think that he did all those things within 24 hours. I thought he started with the convicts, figuring that risking the life of a man who will die in less than a day is no big deal. The 24 hour relapse was not discovered because they met their scheduled death first and couldn't re-die. One he's offed a bunch of convicts then he's fully confident in how it works, tries it on his maid and himself in quick succession and then his buddy.

I do agree that he made a major oversight in not considering long-term effect tests. But I think it makes sense for him to overlook that. He has made the discovery of a lifetime and has been very thorough in one way, but overlooks the other way because he is just so damned excited. When you make a new scientific breakthrough it's hard not to shout it from the rooftops and share it however you can. If he were in a modern engineering firm, there'd have to be longer clinical trials to get it approved for any kind of use, but he's just one excited guy with questionable ethics and nobody else willing or able to point out the flaws in his reasoning.

[Travelin Corpse Feet]

Took a little time for this one to grow on me. It has a slightly Nathanial Hawthorne-ish vibe to it given the era and the subject matter (science!).

[strawman]

As anyone familiar with Mark Twain's famous critique of JF Cooper can attest, a 'Cooper vibe' might be more appropriate.

[hurlepat]

Interesting story. A bit predictable but no less fun for all that.

I thought Larry Santoro did an excellent job reading. I've listened to him read some of his own work for Twilight Tales a few times in Chicago and he's always done an excellent job.

Larry, you should try getting one of your chapters from Just North of Nowhere on Drabblecast! It'd be a great fit!