Drabblecast 227 – The Star

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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by tbaker2500 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:24 am

Mikes wrote:I'm just going to say it's episodes like this that make me shake my friends and reletives until they agree to give short fiction pod casts a try.
I can envision Mike, going from door to door, dressed in black suit and white shirt, holding an iPad. "Have you heard of the book of Sherman?"
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:25 am

tbaker2500 wrote:
Mikes wrote:I'm just going to say it's episodes like this that make me shake my friends and reletives until they agree to give short fiction pod casts a try.
I can envision Mike, going from door to door, dressed in black suit and white shirt, holding an iPad. "Have you heard of the book of Sherman?"
I think when you are speaking of holy tomes that you should capitilize "Book of Sherman."
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by Mikes » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:38 am

So long as I don't have to do any cleaning I'm in... when do I get the iPad?
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by Unblinking » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:39 pm

Scattercat wrote:@Strawman
On a side note, the whole idea of Noah's flood is, to me, a strong argument against worshipping anyone who is a big enough asshole to pull off such a stunt.

I tend to agree with you there. The flood is a sticking point for me. Especially the fact that God promises that he will not do that again. Why does he promise this? He must know that there is potential for us to end up in the same state that made Him trigger the flood anyway. His promising not to do it again makes me think that somehow He regretted his actions and doesn't wish to do them again, which doesn't speak well for His decision-making abilities--making a decision while in a temper and later regretting it.

Likewise, but on a more personal level, his tests of Abraham and the trials of Job are things which don't speak well for his benevolence. It's just as well that I don't believe that a Christian must believe everything in the Bible.


Regarding this story, I think there are other alternatives than the one's scattercat laid out, though they may require thinking carefully about the definitions of God's traits, particularly "benevolence". The star of that alien race had to die sometime, that is the nature of stars. Life on our planet will one day die out too. Just as each organism is born and must eventually die, so must each society, each ecosystem, each planetary niche of life.

Is it malevolent of God to allow a mouse to die? Is it malevolent for Him to allow a person to die? Is it malevolent for Him to allow a species to go extinct? Are all things that have happened, so if you answer "yes" to any of those questions, then that is proof that God is malevolent (or not omnipotent or not omniscient or doesn't exist). But if you accept that everything must end, then this is part of the natural order. And what is a planet of life but this concept on a larger scale? Each of the aliens had to die at some point. The alien species had to become extinct at some point.

It seems to me that the only reason one would rule out this alternative is due to the anthropocentrism that we've been talking about. It's wrong for our species to die because we are humans and therefore important. It's wrong for this alien species to die because they bore enough similarities to us that we can adopt them as human-like. Why doesn't anyone say that God must be malevolent because he wiped out the dinosaurs? Because they're not enough like people, and so are outside the sphere of anthropocentrism.

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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by Unblinking » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:46 pm

When I hear talk wondering how God could allow the world to be as imperfect as it is, I recall a scene in The Matrix where Agent Smith is talking to Morpheus, telling him about the first version of the Matrix, which was a utopia. But the humans kept exiting the Matrix because their minds wouldn't accept it as reality. After thinking of that I tend to contemplate whether that's why OUR world is imperfect. Maybe God could make a Utopia but we, being flawed creatures, would not accept its perfection. So this is the world we get instead.

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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:11 pm

You just went Candide on us. that's ok. so did I.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by strawman » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:29 pm

Actually, Unblinking went biblical on you. Remember, Eden was Utopia until free will screwed that up. The temptation was, "If you choose to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge, you will be like god, knowing (judging for yourself) good and evil.". So The Fall was our choice to leave Utopia.

The Wachowski brothers knew their Bible, and J.K. Rowling knew her Greek mythology. If you want to write about the overarching philisophical questions of mankind, you need to know both.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:51 pm

Now you've got me thinking about "The Apple Paradox."

Which goes something like this.

If sin requires choosing to do evil, how could the eating of the apple (which conferred the knowledge of good and evil) been a sin. At best, it seems to be the original pre-sin.

You may counter that they were still disobeying, however if you don't know that it's wrong to disobey, is it still a sin to do so?

Does "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" apply here?

(I have a long train of thought that concludes with the line "They know not what they do.")
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by strawman » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:30 pm

Actually, there was no mention of an apple. I have no idea where that came from. It refers to "fruit" of the tree, by which is simply meant "consequence". So the picture is a choice between the godlike ability to judge for yourself what is good and what is evil (eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge) or staying "innocent" and thereby maintaining access to the Utopia (eating of the fruit of the tree of life) and so never experiencing death.

You are in good company, ROU. You could say the whole bible is a train of thought ending in "they know not what they do".

For which proposition, we have fresh evidence daily :wink:

I betcha God would say about ignorance of the law exactly what Sir Isaac Newton would say about the Law of Gravity to Icarus.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:33 pm

That's a big 10-aMen-4, buddy.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:35 pm

strawman wrote:Actually, there was no mention of an apple. I have no idea where that came from.
More likely a mango. They are sinfully delicious.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by Mikes » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:47 pm

I like to think of it as a pineapple. Because they taste evil. And look at them, just look!
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:59 pm

Mikes wrote:I like to think of it as a pineapple. Because they taste evil. And look at them, just look!
He's got a point there. So do the pineapples. Many of them.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by tbaker2500 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:58 am

ROU Killing Time wrote:Now you've got me thinking about "The Apple Paradox."
You mean, to wait for the next generation to come out or buy now?
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:13 am

tbaker2500 wrote:
ROU Killing Time wrote:Now you've got me thinking about "The Apple Paradox."
You mean, to wait for the next generation to come out or buy now?
No, it's whether to go to work and build more iPhones or go up to the roof and jump off.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:46 am

strawman wrote: I betcha God would say about ignorance of the law exactly what Sir Isaac Newton would say about the Law of Gravity to Icarus.
If only we lived in the world of Warner Brother's cartoons, where gravity only affects you if you make the mistake of looking down and noticing you have run off the edge of the cliff.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by strawman » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:18 pm

Yeah, that would be a whole lot better than that sameold-sameold responsibility for consequences of bad choices schtick.

You mean like a cartoon in which Wile E. Coyote has unprotected sex with Bambi, but doesn't get an STD unless he looks down.
Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:36 pm

strawman wrote:Yeah, that would be a whole lot better than that sameold-sameold responsibility for consequences of bad choices schtick.

You mean like a cartoon in which Wile E. Coyote has unprotected sex with Bambi, but doesn't get an STD unless he looks down.
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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by strawman » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:57 pm

If churches had a sense of humor, they'd do more such parody.
Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

"Be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle."
Known Some Call Is Air Am
Spoiler:
Non sum qualis eram = "I am not who I will be"

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Re: Drabblecast 227 – The Star

Post by ROU Killing Time » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:10 pm

strawman wrote:If churches had a sense of humor, they'd do more such parody.
If God had no sense of humor, we'd all be in trouble.
So we are all safe.
Just look in the mirror if you need any confirmation.
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Sublime In Peace Iain M. Banks.

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