Classics 18 (EP 53) - Sing

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normsherman
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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby normsherman » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:48 am

bravo!

i've taught guitar for 10 years and know exactly what you mean.
Even if you're humming-- take the guitar out of it all together-- people's musical improvisations are like snow flakes. call it a "soul " if you want, everyone has something that drives them to make certain musical choices if given the opportunity.
"Give us all some Jelly"

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby F5iver » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:17 pm

normsherman wrote:bravo!

i've taught guitar for 10 years and know exactly what you mean.
Even if you're humming-- take the guitar out of it all together-- people's musical improvisations are like snow flakes. call it a "soul " if you want, everyone has something that drives them to make certain musical choices if given the opportunity.


I think this is why I really like cover songs. Hearing someone else's interpretation of a song gives me a peek inside.
I am always disappointed when I go to a concert and they sound exactly like the recording. For real? You've got nothing else? Improvisation is the soul turned outward for the world to experience.

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby moonowl » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:46 am

normsherman wrote:Even if you're humming-- take the guitar out of it all together-- people's musical improvisations are like snow flakes. .


Isn't that great? I didn't know that 2 years ago. I think we have a culture that hyper focuses on star athletes, natural talents, pro level musicians, etc. I think that attitude kind of discourages or tamps down a lot of everyday creativity.

Our house is stuffed with various instruments (my husband plays bass and drums). One of the things we like to do at parties is force people to bang or strum along on stuff, musically inclined or not. It's fun!
You can't keep a soul in a box. You gotta wear it proud. It's gotta be yours, not someone else's. -Sing

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby eric_marsh » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:58 am

I wish I could create music. I think I have a pretty good ear for it but I wouldn't know how to go about creating it. I wish I did.

Then again, there are many different levels of musical creation. Pop is one. Rock might be a different one. Even within rock, for example, there is the spectrum from Zep to Springstein where one is kind of exotic and the other just basic rock.

I've spent a lot of time listening to the works of Puccini, Verdi, Offenbach, Sartie, Debussey and even Elfman and their music seems to be at a whole different level than popular music. I guess that at one level you just hum it out and when you think you have something you work with it. At the other... I have no idea how those guys even start to come up with their musical ideas.
Life is a tragedy for those who feel, but a comedy to those who think. - Horace Walpole
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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby normsherman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:45 am

moonowl wrote:
normsherman wrote:Even if you're humming-- take the guitar out of it all together-- people's musical improvisations are like snow flakes. .

I think we have a culture that hyper focuses on star athletes, natural talents, pro level musicians, etc. I think that attitude kind of discourages or tamps down a lot of everyday creativity.

Our house is stuffed with various instruments (my husband plays bass and drums). One of the things we like to do at parties is force people to bang or strum along on stuff, musically inclined or not. It's fun!


I like this chick
"Give us all some Jelly"

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby normsherman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:56 am

eric_marsh wrote: I guess that at one level you just hum it out and when you think you have something you work with it.

Yah, La Traviata baby!
I think good "Pop" is pop because you can hum along with it. That includes Beethoven's Ode to Joy as much as it does that damn Taylor Swift song I can't get out of my head.
But then you've got brilliant Sonny Rollins improvisations and musical colors by Debussy, and the ways to enjoy music fortunately get way more complex than just being able to hum along.
"Give us all some Jelly"

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby alhilton » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:21 am

moonowl wrote:Isn't that great? I didn't know that 2 years ago. I think we have a culture that hyper focuses on star athletes, natural talents, pro level musicians, etc. I think that attitude kind of discourages or tamps down a lot of everyday creativity.


Unfortunately, the thing that really killed common place music was recording equipment. When there were no readily available recordings, the only music you had or heard was the music you made yourself. If you go back to, say, the 1700 or 1800's, you find that musical talent in the general population, even the uneducated population, was high.

Then recording came along, and the work of the most talented people in the world was suddenly readily available to anyone, anywhere. These days, the recording has often been enhanced beyond what a live concert could have provided. Personal music sounds tawdry beside that, so people stop trying.

I suppose one could say the same thing about story-telling or even sports. If you can step out your front door, go two blocks, and procure inexpensive, recorded product of the most talented people in the world, why make your own stuff?

And yet...there's something awesome about homemade stuff. Maybe recording equipment is finally coming full circle to bring some of that back. Podcasts and ebooks and blogs have that fiddler-on-the-street-corner feel that can be so much more magical than mass product.

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby Richmazzer » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:44 am

alhilton wrote: Maybe recording equipment is finally coming full circle to bring some of that back. Podcasts and ebooks and blogs have that fiddler-on-the-street-corner feel that can be so much more magical than mass product.


True, but then you've got occasional things like Drabblecast, where the production, stories, narration and general quality is clearly miles above anything you will ever on from mainstream TV and radio. Makes you think not only can things come around full circle, they can easily lap it several times over. I'm promoting DC as much as I can, but since most certainly I think this will be widespread syndicated eventually, I'm also feeling sorta guilty for feeling like I got there before everyone else. :-)

ooh, and really interesting points about recorded music, never thought about that before. You hear about "music not being in the schools" all the time these days, when maybe the problem is "music isn't in the home" now a days.

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby strawman » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:24 pm

Everyone used to garden, too. Then grocery stores became supermarkets, and food became standardized and bland, and people who had been producers became consumers.
I'm not hijacking this thread. It strikes me that it's the same thing. Storytelling, oral tradition, even building, & trades of all kinds... the result of an economy that has changed from producing to service-based. I imagine at some point in the digital future we could be so assimilated into the collective that life could be reduced to 1's and zeroes.

Which is why it is a small miracle when people discovery that tomatoes don't really taste like those red things at the market, and you can make good things from seeds and dirt. Or that another advance in digital technology and software makes it possible for people without trained musical skills to receate what they see or hear in their heads in a form others can see and hear. Or that there's a place on the internet where people's wildest dreams are turned into stories, and some of them actually get produced, with music and actors.

I loved Sing because I have always felt that 'people having songs' hit the nail on its metaphorical head. Your song is the ultimate expression of individuality, imagination, creativity. That people can't hear their own song is okay in the story because the characters' individuality and creativity are recognized in themselves. But for the observer, it's tragic, just as it is tragic to find a soul who has been convinced that creativity is something they're "not good at".

So to make your own music, to write your own poem or story, paint or sculpt or craft is like a taste of home-grown tomatoes. The point MUST NOT be to be judged 'good enough' that others will pay you, so you can make your living from being you. That might be like getting your soul frozen.

Thanks, moonowl, for bringin' it back home.
Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

"Be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle."
Known Some Call Is Air Am
Spoiler:
Non sum qualis eram = "I am not who I will be"

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby moonowl » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:11 pm

normsherman wrote:
I like this chick


Aww, you guys are giving me a big ego (yeah, stoke it!).

I like you all too- I have found my people (if you happen to be people and not our future alien overlords).

Anyway, some really insightful comments on the recording industry I've never thought of. It's the same old technology double edge sword, right? The good thing about music recordings is that we are exposed to everything, if you want to be. While we have lost the delight of gathering around a piano to sing at night, we get to hear Afrobeat, bluegrass, pop, electronica, Eurovision contestants, whatever. Back in the good old days, it was whatever banjo folk music in your little neck of the woods.

We don't grow our own food, but by not doing so it gives us more freetime to do other stuff, like podcasts. It allows me to live in a rowhouse in a cool ass city with a 15x15' patch of ground. In this case my balance to to buy into a 'farm share' where I get a delivery of season produce grown just a couple hours away. So I know what a tomato tastes like still, help support sustainable agriculture and I still don't have to grow it.

It all turns around to find balance. I think that's why we have the new DIY revolution. Podcasts, Creative Commons music and software, gardening, and crafting (I have a spinning wheel and can use it).

Frankly I still blame the zombification of our populous due to the overuse of the TV set. If more people would just turn the talking box off sometimes and do something else for a couple hours, maybe they'd find inspiration to create something. Instead of sitting around expecting entertainment on passive demand.
You can't keep a soul in a box. You gotta wear it proud. It's gotta be yours, not someone else's. -Sing

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby Unblinking » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:05 pm

I liked this story quite a bit. Which is no shocker to me, since i generally dig stories speculating on souls or afterlives. The music metaphor totally made sense, and I really enjoyed that.

My speculation on why listening to your own song kills you:
You can only truly be yourself when you're unaware of what that self is. You are what you are outside of your understanding of yourself. If you suddenly become aware of what you are, what you truly are, with no filters and no interpretations then the result is a fatal case of death by enlightenment.

Or perhaps it's possible to truly know your Self, but only through a gradual process of enlightenment to allow your Self to acclimate to the knowledge. Perhaps someone who's been enlightened could survive hearing their own song because it's a song they already know. But by playing a song for someone who's not enlightened, you are enlightening them all in one burst and the shock of the instantaneous enlightenment is too much for the body to handle.

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Re: Drabblecast 53 - Sing by Kristine Kathryn Rusch

Postby strawman » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:09 pm

My take is based on the statement that you can't freeze a person's soul. People's song is their individual personality, but you can't remove that from the dynamic, changing, breathing whole that is a person.
I am reminded of the primitive reaction to portraits as capturing a person.
Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

"Be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle."
Known Some Call Is Air Am
Spoiler:
Non sum qualis eram = "I am not who I will be"

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Re: Drabblecast 053 - Sing

Postby sandrilde » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:00 pm

This was a great story - makes me feel bad actually about the fact that I refused to finish another story by (I THINK) the same author recently that was about purity/virginity tests.... /groan.

Not sure what the story meant in the end. It's still not entirely clear to me why playing back the recorded music would kill these aliens, or what sort of metaphysics she had in mind - what are souls in her story? Do these aliens live forever, having their souls revived in some way, as the story might be interpreted as implying, so long as their souls aren't crushed by being recorded?

Obviously, this story isn't "hard" sci fi, but I'd at least like some idea of how these souls work and how the recordings interacted with them. ANd I didn't get that from the story. But it was still very good, and I'm left with those questions keeping me thinking about this story and what it meant.

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Re: Drabblecast 053 - Sing

Postby strawman » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:21 pm

You missed a scene in which he discovers it isn't the recording but the playback that kills... hearing the song causes them to see the person's soul, but frozen. It dessicates them if they hear their own song.

Metaphorically, it is self-consciousness that kills. Sort of like trying to capture the quality of child-like innocence. The self-awareness necessary to do so itself destroys the quality you try to capture.

You could also liken it to the Heisenberg Principle. The act of observance changes the particle.
Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

"Be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle."
Known Some Call Is Air Am
Spoiler:
Non sum qualis eram = "I am not who I will be"

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Re: Drabblecast 053 - Sing

Postby sandrilde » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:39 pm

Didn't miss it - that's why I put that it wasn't clear to me "why playing back the recorded music would kill these aliens," -


The metaphor you're assigning is interesting, but intelligent creatures often gain self-awareness without it killing them. Still think the metaphysics is a bit vague. They seem to have a procedure for dealing with the dead, so they encounter this outside of recorded playback - but again, the mechanics aren't very clear. Why does killng someone else kill you too? Yes, I know, because your "soul" or spirit or whatever is warped by the act... but that's a non-answer - nothing I could replicate in a lab.

As I said, I don't expect this story to have that level of detailed explanation, but it left a lot to think about.

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Re: Classics 18 (EP 53) - Sing

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:52 am

Image
{Marker for start of Classics comments. See Pondspider's suggestion.}

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Re: Classics 18 (EP 53) - Sing

Postby strawman » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:10 am

A Top Ten episode.
Never judge anyone until you have biopsied their brain.

"Be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle."
Known Some Call Is Air Am
Spoiler:
Non sum qualis eram = "I am not who I will be"

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Re: Classics 18 (EP 53) - Sing

Postby amyrt » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:58 am

A haunting and beautiful tale that I somehow missed the first time around so thanks for including it in classics!
And I noticed the "Classics" intro has gotten much shorter and the discussion at the end is gone... both great improvements, these are fabulous stories and productions best left to speak for themselves. The chitchat at the end is often a downer for me after the mood and tone set by the story, especially ones as well read as this one.

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Re: Classics 18 (EP 53) - Sing

Postby normsherman » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:42 am

Just chimin' in for a different opinion-- even though I'm probably biased. I actually LOVE Charity's intros and was a big fan of the end cap discussion too. This is coming from someone who sees these things as adding additional value to a repeat that is already otherwise free and easily findable online. I figure people can turn off an episode after the story if they don't want to hear new added discussion, no prob (I love listening to the discussion, even when I find myself not agreeing.)
And also I love hearing a modern reframing of the episode cast within a new intro as well, as Charity often points out things that are only noticeable after an episode has had awhile to sit on the shelves.
It would be a lot easier on our end to have DrabbleClassics just be a straight rerun feed for people who want an editorial selection throughout the archives-- but to me, I find that the modern day human interactions and addition ad a great deal of additional value, or at the very least, are easy to avoid.
"Give us all some Jelly"

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Re: Classics 18 (EP 53) - Sing

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:52 am

Choirboy here: I also like the intros and, usually, the discussion. Alas, my podcast queue is WAY backed up, so I don't always give these the love they deserve.


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