No Taxation without Twabble-ization

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Algernon Sydney is Dead
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No Taxation without Twabble-ization

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:04 am

Give millions to political scum and get a law worth billions to your business!
Amazon & Google love the new web sales tax.

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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby ROU Killing Time » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:52 am

Algernon Sydney is Dead wrote:Give millions to political scum and get a law worth billions to your business!
Amazon & Google love the new web sales tax.

This issue is completely off my radar, being from Oregon where we have no sales-tax, but what I don't understand is why when we purchased a gift from Amazon 6 months ago to be shipped to our in-laws in Kentucky they added on sales tax to the order, (even though we were purchasing in Oregon.)

I also don't understand why it is worth billions to Amazon and Google to do so. One would think that once the advantage of avoiding sales tax is gone there is little incentive to go online when you can brick and mortar and get instant satisfaction. (Where do the billions come from. Interest on the sales-tax from the time they collect it to the time they give it over to the state?)
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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:02 am

Amazon and Google have lobbied millions and stand to gain billions because they're about the only ones who are set up to handle the new law.

Once it goes into effect, every online seller will have to become an unpaid tax collector for the current 5,000 to 10,000 jurisdictions that collect sales tax -- every one with not only different rates, but different categories and definitions of what is what. Merchants face draconian fines and possible jail time for any mistake -- all from jurisdictions where they have zero representation.

Amazon and Google already employ hundreds of people to wade through this maze. So, their existing marketplaces get a huge boost, while using johnny-law to shut down competitors. The surviving small guys will have to switch shopping-cart systems to one of the big boys (no one else could stay on top of the situation). Guess who the top two marketplace providers are? (Not counting Ebay)

Also, the number of cities charging sales tax is expected to increase markedly when they realize a chance to get "Free" money. And, once this is in place, a national internet sales tax will be too tempting and easy a target. That will happen; it's just a matter of when.

It's the same reason why your telephone, national network, American auto manufacturer, national bank, etc., choices all suck. Big Government makes it so only big, and crappy, companies can navigate the regulation and fees. Big companies gladly pay to get these laws written in their favor (as happened here). I think they get a perverse laugh with their lies about how this will help "main street", when their aim is the opposite.

PS: This issue is off your radar by design. If the American people knew what was really going on, and how evil Google really was, they'd... Okay, they'd probably just bend over and take it... But one can hope!

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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby strawman » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:23 am

What ASID says is the truth, and has been the case all my years. I started out in a family business that made seatbelt webbing. The industry association lobbied hard in the 70's for shoulder restraints and back seat belts because those laws multiplied the market. But it was all done under the cover of "safety". They mandated a certain number of twists per inch in the yarn and other specifications so narrow that only the existing producers were able to meet the specs. This was all endorsed by the company union, because it protected against foreign competition.
Government and corporate business is really a marionette show. Why should anyone invest in a product they think is good, when success is going to be predetermined by unseen political factors? "Corporate cronyism" and "rent-seeking" replace Horatio Alger, who is now working at Burger King trying to make enough to pay the healthcare bill premiums that result from the feeding frenzy of every health care special interest in the country in its 2300 pages. It's what politicians do. If you were a politician, it's what you would do. It's what Corporatists do. If you're T Boone Pickens or Jeff Immelt, that's what your job is. There's a red team and a blue team in the system but, like true believers in every religion, they just provide the shouting that drowns out the kid who's pointing out that the emperor is naked.

Oh, crap, ASID, look what you've done! This isn't 100 characters at all! Well, at least I resisted the impulse to do it all in bold type
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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby ROU Killing Time » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:44 pm

Algernon Sydney is Dead wrote:
It's the same reason why your telephone, national network, American auto manufacturer, national bank, etc., choices all suck. Big Government makes it so only big, and crappy, companies can navigate the regulation and fees. Big companies gladly pay to get these laws written in their favor (as happened here).

Strawman knows all about my family's small business, a cytology laboratory that was put out of business by the HMO lobby. (Funny thing, though, the usual response I get from those that tend to look at the world from the right side of political thought sums up as "that's life in the big city, what do you want, a bunch of regulations?" We really just wanted a level playing field where if a doctor wanted to send their cytology work to us, they could choose to do so and still have insurance pay for it, as had been the case for 27 years of us being in the business.

As far as the evil of Amazon and Google in the buying politicians. Well, money is speech, so I guess they'd say they aren't buying off the politicians, they are just talking to them.
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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby strawman » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:50 pm

I would think that crony capitalism would be one thing people could agree on. OWS could make common cause with the tea party. But both sides would have to put principles over personalities.
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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:31 pm

ROU Killing Time wrote:As far as the evil of Amazon and Google in the buying politicians. Well, money is speech, so I guess they'd say they aren't buying off the politicians, they are just talking to them.

Money is fine, and speech is fine but they are not the same!
And there is more than that going on, it's much much tit-for-tat and "pay to play". Six generations ago, terms like "robber barons" would not be inappropriate to this case -- except that nowadays they are smart enough to avoid excessive skull-cracking (so far).


strawman wrote:I would think that crony capitalism would be one thing people could agree on. OWS could make common cause with the tea party. But both sides would have to put principles over personalities.

True.

On an administrative note. If this topic continues, I'll move it to its own thread -- unless we start replying in twabble form or all-bold text.

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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby ROU Killing Time » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:59 pm

Algernon Sydney is Dead wrote:
On an administrative note. If this topic continues, I'll move it to its own thread -- unless we start replying in twabble form or all-bold text.

Yes, that's probably a good idea. I've often thought that there was a strange alliance brewing between OWS and Tea Party
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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby lyda » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:54 am

Isn't the issue small government, not big government? Up to now the US Federal government blocked small local governments from collecting sales taxes for online sales.

If there was a national online sales tax collected by the Feds and then dispersed by them to the localities that stuff was sold to, then that would be far more efficient and far easier for small businessmen selling online. It also would help small government pay for the roads and police and firefighters and so on that the customers of those small businessmen need.

Just a thought.

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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby tbaker2500 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:31 pm

This is actually an interesting and civil conversation, but not best had in the Twabble section. ASID, you want to move it to a new thread? (Since I'm not entirely sure how to do it. :-) )
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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby ROU Killing Time » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:44 pm

tbaker2500 wrote:This is actually an interesting and civil conversation, but not best had in the Twabble section. ASID, you want to move it to a new thread? (Since I'm not entirely sure how to do it. :-) )

But my last post was exactly 100 characters, AND I used bold font. Well technically THIS my last. Ok, previous post then.
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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:20 pm

tbaker2500 wrote:This is actually an interesting and civil conversation, but not best had in the Twabble section. ASID, you want to move it to a new thread? (Since I'm not entirely sure how to do it. :-) )

Done (unless you can't read this :) ). For this kind of thing, you can use the "Split" function of the moderator tools.

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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:31 pm

lyda wrote:If there was a national online sales tax collected by the Feds and then dispersed by them to the localities that stuff was sold to, then that would be far more efficient and far easier for small businessmen selling online. It also would help small government pay for the roads and police and firefighters and so on that the customers of those small businessmen need.


That is not how the bill is written, so it will not happen that way.

Also, the money would not go for roads, police, and firefighters; it never does. It is a "paradox" in the USA that the most-taxed locations have the absolute worst roads, police, firefighters, and schools. Los Angeles is a prime example, but the statistical correlation is good throughout the USA (I suspect that Europe is similar).

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Re: Post your Twitfic Twabbles Here! (General Content)

Postby lyda » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:02 am

Algernon Sydney is Dead wrote:
lyda wrote:If there was a national online sales tax collected by the Feds and then dispersed by them to the localities that stuff was sold to, then that would be far more efficient and far easier for small businessmen selling online. It also would help small government pay for the roads and police and firefighters and so on that the customers of those small businessmen need.


That is not how the bill is written, so it will not happen that way.


Exactly. It's written to allow small government to do everything instead of big government.

And to be fair, the bill actually requires states to provide free software to calculate these things and requires states to provide a single address to send all tax money for jurisdictions in that state. So, the bill seems to enact medium government, but it's still a pain in the ass.

Algernon Sydney is Dead wrote:Also, the money would not go for roads, police, and firefighters; it never does. It is a "paradox" in the USA that the most-taxed locations have the absolute worst roads, police, firefighters, and schools. Los Angeles is a prime example, but the statistical correlation is good throughout the USA (I suspect that Europe is similar).


That's actually a completely separate discussion. I've lived in both the US and Ireland and have seen local tax money spent well (my high school in NY provided an excellent education) and spent poorly (Galway County Council's "refurbishment" of Eyre Square was a comical waste of money). That said, in the US local taxes pay for schools. And since the best predictor of academic success is parental income, that would be a good indicator that local tax money gets spent well in the States.

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Re: No Taxation without Twabble-ization

Postby cranialwrench » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:54 am

Excitement over the size of my return was quickly stifled by an uneasy dread. The fear rising as I read the numbers. 1099.


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