Sackoon vs. Sanitee vs. Night Owl vs. Chronocerous

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Sackoon vs. Sanitee vs. Night Owl vs. Chronocerous

Post by normsherman » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:38 am

YOU SURVIVED TO ROUND 2

And as the world burns, so starts another round of the 2008 Mega-Beast-Super-Animal Death-Match. Vote, post, or call in to help us decide who will wear the crimson crown of carnage: Sackoon, the hulking Tanuki mech, Sanitee, the perverse mind-invading manatee, Night Owl, the soul shattering owl master of darkness, or Chronocerous, the time-bending rhino, a stampede on four legs.
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Post by Mr. Tweedy » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:41 pm

Wow, what a great field! Even better than last time.

I love how the contenders all get their powers from distinct fantasy/sci-fi conventions. The shadow beast, staple of contemporary fantasy. The mech, staple of anime. The psychic and the time-traveller, staples of sci-fi. I love the creatures (the pilots and gunner disagree; he he).

My vote here goes to Night Owl.

Sackoon is the clear loser here. Those brave tanuki will put up a valiant fight, but their guns and armor haven't a chance against against their magical foes. Night owl is fast and impossible to target. Their guns will miss and he will disappear into the shadow world to avoid their molten sake. Night Owl will be in there like Jackson on Obama before the tanuki tankers can blink. They will fare no better against Sanitee. Anyone whose seen any anime knows that mechs always loose to psychics. Sanitee will simply mind-control the tanuki gunner, and Sackoon will pour his molten sake down his own throat. Chronocerous's foresight allows him to dance around the tanuki bullets, and his mighty horn will take ready advantage of the mech's conspicuous weak spots. Sackoon will go down within 30 seconds.

The other three are more evenly balanced, but I think Chronocerous will go down second. His slipstreaming ability will be little use against a powerful psychic, who will read him mind and thereby share his foresight powers. Sanitee will transfix him with his evil eye and force him to turn his powers against himself, rewinding time to impale himself on his own horn. Night Owl has little offense against the Chronocerous, but he is also not susceptible to his attacks. Still, I believe Night Owl would win simply because he can attack from above, and a rhino has neither defense not offense there.

The two physically powerful contenders are quickly dispatched, leaving Sanitee and Night Owl to square off one on one. But, alas, this in no contest at all, for what is more horrifying to a psychic than a shadow-beast? Sanitee is a virtual antenna for the waves of black dread washing off Night Owl. He is petrified. He wets himself. The last thought in his brain before Night Owl eats it is despair that, in the end, his great intellect was not able to overcome his instinctive horror.

Night Owl's screech of evil glee shatters the air before he melts back into the shadows...
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Post by delfedd » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:12 pm

Interesting. Though last game ranged attacks held the game, this time around they are not as significant. Sackoon can lay down heavy supressive fire, but once Night owl reflects the attack for the first time, Sackoon will be much more careful about how and when they fire.

Again, intelligence will play a big part in this game, and in this one it will play an even larger role. Sanitee is a literal genius, while sackoon appear to be tribal, superstitious creatures. Night Owl wishes to create fear, and therefore is more intelligent than Chronocerous.

Chronocerous will instantly realize (because of his foresight) the immense danger that Sackoon poses, and will try to damage that as much as possible. Chronocerous's lack of flight, however, will cause problems.

Sanitee is going to be the driving force behind the fight. He knows that Chronocerus will try to destroy Sackoon, but lacks the means to do it. Also, I believe that Sanitee will try to destroy Sackoon in case it turns into a giant boat. Sanitee will then use Night Owl, against whom his mind control powers are greatly enhanced because of how far Night Owl can see, He will take over Night Owl's mind as soon as possible, then use night Owl's fear an mystique against the superstitious and drunk Tankui. Then, when the time is right, Night owl will fly directly at the Sackoon and enter his shadow dimension. The Sackoon will move right over it, as Night Owl exits, and Sackoon will be able to wreck havoc on Sackoon's electrical systems before exiting through the shadow pocket again.

Night Owl will then kill the Tankui inside the Mechanical beast, and for a moment Sanitee will be confused, wondering where Chronocerus went. After discovering Chronocerus's location using Night Owl, Night Owl will attack as effectively as possible. However, this brings him into Chronocerus's 3 second halo.

In my opinion, any opponent vulnerable to the horn of a time traveling rhino is very quickly mauled inside the 3 second halo. The Chronocerus then stabs into the vulnerable bird of prey with his large horn.

After that, it's over. Sanitee's greatest attack relies on eye contact, but Rhinos are so short sighted that to use his attack, sanitee will have to enter the 3 second halo. Sanitee knows this, and after throwing debris at Chronocerus for a while, will realize that his death is inevitable.

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thoughts

Post by StalinSays » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 am

Round 2 is still an infant, and things are heating up. Excellent thoughts all around.
Mr. Tweedy wrote:Sanitee will simply mind-control the tanuki gunner, and Sackoon will pour his molten sake down his own throat.
Priceless visual, and very possible. My defense of Sackoon's chances against Sanitee is this: three pilots, one Manatee. He can only bring one under his spell at a time, so if that is left testicle, there's still a gun turret free to blast holes in to the bobbing fleshy target before it. The pilot, with control over the feet and lead, if targeted, is a wrinkle. It is dire, but the head pod is detachable, so the crew of Sackoon's nethers could jettison the rouge region. Even decapitated, the mech is fully armored and largely invulnerable. It becomes a fort, with a fighter's chance of survival.
Mr. Tweedy wrote:what is more horrifying to a psychic than a shadow-beast? Sanitee is a virtual antenna for the waves of black dread washing off Night Owl. He is petrified. He wets himself. The last thought in his brain before Night Owl eats it is despair that, in the end, his great intellect was not able to overcome his instinctive horror.
Never even crossed my mind, but a totally organic and noteworthy progression of the discussion: Sanitee can invade Night Owl's mind, but does he like what he sees? I'd bet not as well. The rock, paper, and scissors are coming in to focus.

I would imagine Sanitee reacts in a very human way to Night Owl - he turns fear of the unknown to hatred. The battle would become a chess match, with two players, and two pawns: a mind controlled rhino, and a tanuki mech strung along by a moving owl target.
delfedd wrote: Sanitee is going to be the driving force behind the fight. He knows that Chronocerus will try to destroy Sackoon...
Another bitchen twist that never occurred to me - Sanitee can piggy-back Chronocerous to see the future. He is hyper intelligent, so an understanding of the quantum happenings in Chronocerous mind is within his providence.

The more I hear, the more I'm convinced the two largest challengers have the worst chances.

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Post by tbaker2500 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:36 am

I'm amazed. A tanuki character without any shapeshifting capabilities?? I mean, that is the very definition of a tanuki in japanese folklore!

(Altho the multiple pilots is quite in character.)

Here's a compromise. Give the mech some transforming capabilities. Like, you know, Transformers.
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Post by Mr. Tweedy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:48 am

How were the matches determined? Were the contestants grouped at random?

I ask because it strikes me that, although Sackoon is utterly doomed in this match, he would have done very well against any of the guys from round 1. Squid and ISM would have been easy cannon fodder. Skully would have been liquefied by the killer sake. Hornaztee would have lost eventually because none of her attacks would have much impact on a mech. If he had been a round 1 contender, Sackoon would have been a shoo-in.

And although I'm voting early and often for Night Owl to win the current fight, I think he would have been creamed by the round 1 guys.

So, yeah, how were the matches determined?
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Post by delfedd » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:07 am

Here's how I see the rock paper scissors dynamic playing out in this round

Sackoon beats Sanitee every time
Night Owl beats Sackoon every time.
Night Owl has problems with Sanitee due to his long range vision. Whether or not Sanitee is driven insane by the mental contact with Night Owl is yet to be seen.
Night Owl has problems with Chronocerous, due to the fact that he can only engage in melee combat, and much of his trickery is nullified by Chronocerous's future sight and time distortion.
Chronocerous has problems fighting all the opponents, being the only ground based character. However, once a creature is driven to the ground, the chronocerous is waiting. Chronocerous has some serious advantages against Sackoon. Sackoon's ranged attacks are almost completely useless agaiinst Chronocerous. However, a normal Rhino Horn wouldn't be able to cut through a nearly indestructible armor.
Sanitee's best target for mind control is Night Owl. Sackoon has three pilots which cannot be seen from outside, and Chronocerous has very limited vision.

This one seems to have more variables than the last one. And be generally more badass.

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Post by I... can't read or write » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:13 am

Mr. Tweedy wrote: Sackoon is the clear loser here. Those brave tanuki will put up a valiant fight, but their guns and armor haven't a chance against against their magical foes.
Wow, couldn't disagree more. Am I the only one who thinks Sackoon will win this handily? Assuming the tanuki aren't too drunk to stick to a basic gameplan (admittedly a bold assumption), I think this will be a walk in the park.

As soon as the match begins, Sackoon would unleash a rain of bullets upon Sanitee - a methodical, defenseless sitting duck. Sure, Sanitee will try some mind-control, but his oversized cranium will be a pincushion before he has a chance to pull off the sake suicide.

At this point, Sackoon can focus entirely on Chronocerous. The only danger Night Owl poses to Sackoon is via reflected projectiles. Otherwise he's just a speck on the tanuki windshield. It's a 40:1 weight ratio, almost 44:1 if you include the portly pilots! Even with ultra sharp talons, it would take quite a while to pierce the mech's nearly indestructible shell.

Chronocerous will prove to be a tougher fight, but once again rapid and relentless gunfire will be Sackoon's best friend. Chronocerous will need to constantly time distort to avoid being hit. We all know what happens if he does this too much, so he'll have no choice but to go on the offensive. Any time he comes close to approaching, Sackoon can hover and tip the molten sake. Chrono may get off a few solid hits, but in the end odds are he'll tire out and either be scalded or be driven to cardiac arrest.

Finally, with only Night Owl left, Sackoon can afford to look ahead to his next match. Best case scenario - the tanuki eventually swat Owl down like the annoying fly he is, then stomp the stunned bird out like a cigarette butt. If Owl were actually able to make a hole in the skin, as soon as he stuck his head inside, the plucky tanuki pilots would impale him with their spears. In case you couldn't tell, I don't respect Night Owl.

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Post by delfedd » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:29 pm

While I agree with you on the "sanitee versus Sackoon" result, I've gotta say that Chronocerous is not going to go down by Sackoon, and neither is Night Owl. Night Owl can REFLECT the attacks, not to mention enter a pocket dimension which would allow him to enter the Sackoon Armor.

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Post by AynSavoy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:33 pm

Question: can Sackoon run out of ammo?


I'm a Night Owl girl--I agree that he's a prime target for Sanitee, but given his intelligence and dark nature, I think there'd be some back-and-forth mind games, at least not a clear defeat.

I'm afraid that Sanitee physical vulnerability will be a problem as he can only target one opponent at a time. The other two only have to take him out while he's concentrating on the third (and they surely will--that bulging brain matter is far too tempting not to splatter).
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Responses

Post by StalinSays » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:48 pm

Figure I'd answer as satisfactorily as I can some of the early questions and share my thoughts -- AKA longest, possibly nerdiest post ever

----
tbaker2500 wrote:I'm amazed. A tanuki character without any shapeshifting capabilities?? I mean, that is the very definition of a tanuki in japanese folklore!
Well, despite the folklore basis of the tanuki being the visual inspiration, my original concept was to go for a more 'anime' pop culture approach, rather than to port over the traditional legend. Kept the humor, lost the Loki/Puck/goblin trickster aspect (ignoring the essential 'trick' of being a mech with pilots).

Not all of the original legend mojo is wasted though - I'd quote this snippet, from a link provided by the wikipedia article:

"As it is a tiny little thing the size of a big rabbit, the legends provide two different solutions to the mass problem. Some tanuki shapeshifters changed into giant versions of this rather innocent wild animal. In this form, they could be a threat in a way that would have simply been impossible for a normal-sized tanuki."

source: http://www.jh-author.com/tanuki.htm

This is more referring to were-tanukis, but run with me - being big is a transformation in and of itself. As to why the robot doesn't transform itself, well, I present this evidence (watch for the robot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ReoBPl4mM

And yeah, transforming robots, all that Shia Lebouff residue... yuck.

While I'm on the Sackoon subject: no one but Sanitee would realize Sackoon is not one but three - imagine how daunted Chronocerous would be, having pierced a nut, to see he'd only enranged his enemy, and disabled one of two guns.

---
AynSavoy wrote:Question: can Sackoon run out of ammo?
Yes, but as far as this round is concerned, not really. This came up as the editors and I discussed the Sackoon character. While I was tempted to say tanuki magic at first, we hit upon a more practical answer - the space left in his big belly is just loaded with ammo. He has the capacity to unload a near limitless amount of rounds, as it would pertain to this particular battle. He only has one date to keep this day.

Oh, and it's a safe assumption to say that yes, a Sackoon explosion would be very much like a fireworks display. Too bad they originated in China, otherwise I could fake a whole 'nother layer of complexity.

---
Mr. Tweedy wrote:How were the matches determined? Were the contestants grouped at random?
Half and half. The idea was to take the winning 12 of the prelims, and seat them like an NCAA tournament. We came close, but the monkey wrench was that I had to start drawing the competitors for round 1 before round 0 voting was closed. As it turned out, the 4 winners I chose bunched up together in the final rankings. See the color chart below.

Round 1 - Round 2 - Round 3

( 01 ) Raptor
( 02 ) Tanuki
( 03 ) Yeti
( 04 ) Squid
( 05 ) Wolverine
( 06 ) Manatee
( 07 ) Hornet
( 08 ) Armadillo
( 09 ) Panda
( 10 ) Rhino
( 11 ) Shark
( 12 ) Owl

So none of the top three are forced to share a round, which was important. Round 1 ended up loaded, but also didn't contain the first or second overall seed.

As for powers balancing - the editors and I choose the abilities of the beasts after the sets of animals are decided. So if there is a particular imbalance within the round, that's a failing of our creative process (which admittedly, relies heavily on pun-making, the devil's playground). As for inter-round imbalance, like Squid Marx toasting Sanitee, or Telephant trouncing Skullverine, that's inconsequential. Hybrid finalists like Tentakill, Hellaphant, (let's project) Sackzilla, and Raptorous Maximus however, should suffer no such inequity. That's a place we're pouring in much TLC.

And before you worry about the sum powers of round 02 being greater than that of the 07 classics, note the double edged sword of feverish combined power, with crippling combined weakness.

---
I... can't read or write wrote:Chronocerous will prove to be a tougher fight, but once again rapid and relentless gunfire will be Sackoon's best friend. Chronocerous will need to constantly time distort to avoid being hit. We all know what happens if he does this too much
I'm with Read or Write on Sackoon's ubiquitous competitiveness. I think people are giving Chronocerous's heart too much credit: he can bullet dance, sure, but powering that, and chugging along tons of pounds of weight, at metal-piercing ramming speed would be a lot of cardiac stress to bear.

---
delfedd wrote:not to mention enter a pocket dimension which would allow him to enter the Sackoon Armor.
This gets hazy, and is more personal imagining than anything else, but I wouldn't see Night Owl being able to do that. He can disappear within his shadow, yes, but being that his shadow emanates from his body, it would instantly stop in place as he entered it. Night Owl could perhaps dip in, briefly wait for someone to walk over his shadow, and pop up, but as far as using that as a straight up portal to become offensively immaterial, I don't see it.

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Post by Mr. Tweedy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:55 pm

I'm a bit dense. What's up with the hybrid creatures? Which ones get combined and how does this combination come about?
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hybrids

Post by StalinSays » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:18 pm

The whole thing gets a bit confusing, working on more content for the web site to help explain, but for now:

As Norm mentioned wwwaayyy back in May 2007, Drabblecast episode 12 (http://web.mac.com/normsherman/Site/Pod ... uther.html), Telephant, the winner of the inaugural Death Match competition, could fly, roll in to a ball, or burrow his way in to the sunset, having absorbed the powers of his competitors by garnering the voting prize. As a part of the solicited ideas for 2008 competition, I visualized this empowered Telephant, reborn Hellaphant.

Image

http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs32/f/2008/ ... oKaier.jpg

The concept of the 2008 Death-Match is a gladiator tournament across multiple voting rounds, heightening the grandiosity (and go for broke geekiness) of the proceedings. Four full rounds, to create four hybrid finalists. The Drabblecast editors liked the idea of including the 07 contenders as a part of this, so one of the four hybrid producing rounds is retroactively counted as the 07 contest, won by Telephant. The other three slots are held by the newly crowned Squid Marx (soon to be visualized as Tentakill), a tanuki/manatee/owl/rhino hybrid, and a raptor/armadillo/panda/shark hybrid.

What makes the individual voting rounds important is that the hybrid 'base' is the main vote winner. So as Hellaphant is essentially Telephant, it should visually remind of him most, and retain most of its personality. Tentakill will be the same way, mostly Squid Marx, still a commie, but with a touch of each of his felled opponents (say a second nozzle to spray liquid nitrogen, a larvae syringe arm, and partially exposed bone).

The big flourish is the finals in September, after we've decided our last two hybrid champions. At that point, the graduates of each round have to really prove their stuff, and the discussion hopefully becomes twice as ludicrous, twice as detailed. If people have a true affinity for the first rounders, they can let it show in votes. If an elephant still has a gluttonous mind-share, it will reign the once and future king.

The last bit, and perhaps my favorite part, when one winner is named, we will get to name it, and I can hazard the art. Sixteen beasts, one lumpy, multi-limbed, oozing body. A hideous demi-god, the new monarch of the animal kingdom.

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Post by Mr. Tweedy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:33 pm

So... The winner of each round absorbs the powers of his conquered foes as he moves on?
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yessuh

Post by StalinSays » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:08 pm

Yessuh. And in some instances, the weaknesses. So a round 2 hybrid will need shade to make shadow powers operate as advertised.

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Post by Mr. Tweedy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:20 pm

A larvae-injetcting undead communist squid tank with liquid nitrogen blood? :D

I think I can state with fair confidence that this sort of thing is why the First Amendment was written.
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split

Post by confusedgreen » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:49 am

I'm completely split b/w the Chronocerous and the Night Owl...
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Post by Joe Ego » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:08 am

Small & fast usually means quickly dead, but I think the shadow powers will allow for some serious face melting... *ahem*

Night Owl's only real threat is Sanitee. Too bad either of the remaining 2 competitors will make short work of the brainiac while the 4th is being harassed by a mind-controlled barn owl. Sanitee could put Night Owl into a suicidal fight or may not be able to come to terms with the oppressive darkness.

Chronocerous may be large and hulking, but I'm not seeing bullet proof. I think of it more as a last ditch defensive layer for things he cannot or does not care to avoid through his time shifting. I believe Sackoon bullets or Owl claws could do a real number on him. Night Owl has the best chance by approaching from the rear/above. And don't forget Chronocerous can adjust his path and actions but he still has to make the effort to move his huge ass. Knowing Night Owl is going to enlarge your rectum in a couple seconds doesn't make it any easier to move said rectum when the steering happens at the front end.

Sackoon will make a valiant effort but has too many chances for a debilitating mistake between the alcohol and team coordination. Anime-like mecha movement is essential in this fight. The slightest distraction or lack of coordination will see Sackoon jumped by the other two more nimble competitors.

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Post by tbaker2500 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:50 am

C'mon. Sackoon is going to walk away with this one.

To quote the description, Sackoon is "highly invulnerable".

Let's pose the question: Who can damage Sackoon?

The Sanitee can only target one opponent at a time. There are three minds inside Sackoon. If one tanuki is fighting a mind battle, the others simply shoot Sanitee to break the concentration. Unless Sanitee can achieve an instant mental kill, there is no challenge here.

Night Owl:
I'm sorry, but even ultra-sharp talons are for tearing flesh, not metal armor. The most Night Owl can do to attack is to reflect projectiles. Worst case is a stalemate, as Sackoon can just stop firing.

Chronocerous: The only one who has a shot at hurting Sackoon.


Next question: Who can Sackoon hurt?
Sanitee doesn't stand a chance against the raw firepower of Sackoon, unless Sanitee can instantly cripple all three pilots. If Sanitee had such power, he'd win the whole competition flat.

Night Owl will be very hard to hit. But Night Owl needs shadows to continually use shadow powers. If there are any obstacles which create shadows, all Sackoon has to do it set them on fire with the molten Saki. At which point, there are no shadows.

Chronocerous may have 3 seconds of time control, but Sackoon can lay down much more than 3 seconds worth of destructive mayhem. As soon as Chrono tires, the ranged attacks of Sackoon will take the day.

But that aside, you can't help but love the story telling possibilities of three tanukis inside a mech.
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Post by Mr. Tweedy » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:27 am

Hmm... I think you underestimate Sanitee. He really only needs to control one tanuki. Have you ever been trapped in a mech with a murderous anthropomorphized tanuki? No? Well those other two would be as soon as the third got mind-jacked.

Do the tanuki know about Sanitee's powers? That would make a difference. If they did, they could outfit the mech's interior with locking hatches to avoid the scenario I posed. If they are not aware, then there would be no reason for them to install such partitions.
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