New voting process for round 3?

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Which voting system do you prefer?

Quit whining you little baby. Keep it like it is.
4
33%
Move it to the forums: Post openly who you prefer, then count at the end.
2
17%
Move it to the forums- Start a daily Poll like this, then tally all the Polls.
3
25%
Other: I'm going to post an idea better than yours.
3
25%
 
Total votes: 12

adam
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New voting process for round 3?

Post by adam » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:55 pm

[reposted from previous thread for different subject matter]


hate that i havent been able to access the forums to take part in all the amazing debate going on up to this point. i have mixed feelings about the current voting system/policy, and certainly about the other easier, definitely illegal voting methods. like norm mentioned it's loads of fun going down your i.m. list and just dumping huge rants about why a whimpy 100 lb bird with pointy fingernails could never conceivably rend through 2TON mech plated armor under any circumstances. people ive lost touch with and havent chatted with in years i would dump this shit on and ask them to toss a vote my way. haha. its a way of truly reconnecting with loved ones..

but on the flip side, the way voting goes down opens up a world of potential corruption. it can make voting pointless for some. true, pointlessness is really at the heart of this entire speculative nonsensical badassery, but if it's pointless pointlessness that kinda turns it around like a double negative and gives it a point.

i'm not sayin it's anyones fault. as our founding fathers so often stressed in shaping our current, corruption free (haha) system of checks and balances, there is no such thing as an unfair vote by the populace- the only injustice lies in a system which allows for it. in other words no one has violated any honor code if the system relies on an honor code to work.
the current system favors those with more regular computer access, and access to more computers, as well as tech-savvyness, people with bigger friends lists, and people who dont have to go to bed before midnight on sunday nights to get up early for work the next day. hehe. it's like a cyber-jim-crow situation, where the single-computered, unpopular and employed among us are treated as 3/5ths of a say. clearly unconstitutional.

soo anyway i propose we move voting to the forums. i dont like the integrated poll option because it doesnt let people change their mind, and the nature of these beasts is that it's anyones game as long as a mind can be changed. why dont we do it like we did in selecting which animals would make the cut? everyone post their favorite, maybe even a 1st 2nd and 3rd. that way they can go back and edited, and counts can be tallied at the end. unfortunately this would remove voter anonymity, but shoot, does anyone really want to be anonymous with this? i wish i had more friends simply so i could have more people to impose my beliefs about who should win on them. we could still rally support from friends, they'd just have to register on the forum to do so, which would actually be kinda nice as an opportunity to draw fresh blood in here. final effect: a lot less votes, but every vote counts squarely.

alternatively, use the forum Poll option, and just open a new poll every day. keep it anonymous. every round would have 1 thread for argumentation/speculation, and a string of 7 poll threads so everyone can vote daily to push a front-runner and remove peoples confidence in 3rd parties who'd look like a wasted vote (i haaated having to give up on sanitee. ugh) or i guess save all 7 of their votes for the last minute, and not have to waste their input just cause they couldnt get to the forums on a certain day.

but that's just my 2 farthings. may the best mutated abomination win.

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Post by normsherman » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:14 am

I'm always open to change based on a balance of majority ruling and general ethics. My only concern is that we've already done 2 rounds one way. There are pros and cons to both- I like the fact that Bo's site is open to anyone, you don't have to register, the pics and descriptions are right there and it just looks waaaaay better than these shitty forums.

I also like seeing 170 votes for something as stupid as a robotic tanuki...if we moved it forum members only we'd see a max of what - 25 votes at best per beast?

But certainly, it's shady voting from the perspective of the american legal system. Night Owl wouldn't have won even in Florida. ;-)
So I'd like to see people's opinions too.
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Post by strawman » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:05 am

Oh goodie, an argument about arguing. Norm you've got three nuts, so you're the Tanunanunanuki. Adam, you wrote Morton, so you're Insanitee. Now, what's the score here? I love the corruption of random unregistered users being able to vote. How else can a longshot like Sanjaya make the cut every week? This is the main reason that DC subscribers have for social interaction with other humanoids, and a truly drabblecastian way to phish for new members. But it sucks that their vote counts as much as everyone else's.

There's the matter of commitment to DC as opposed to mere involvement. Ya know, the chicken is involved in breakfast. The pig is committed. I propose that your vote should be weighted by a factor equal to your number of forum posts. By this formula, Tweedy's vote would count 369, and he could spend more time playing with his little girls, instead of sending them around the neighborhood begging people to vote for Chronocerous.

This would provide a strong incentive for people to register and become assimilated into the DC Borgatrix!
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Post by tbaker2500 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:34 am

Well, I really don't know what is a good system. So instead of presenting positive, constructive suggestions, I'll say what I didn't like about the last two rounds of voting. :D

I felt like the discussions and who wins were completely unrelated. And I see this "competition" as collaborative storytelling. In the past two rounds, people wrote up a story, and then the ending was picked by who had access to the most computers/friends. There is such an intense disconnect there, it just pissed me off.

By that token, those who participate on the forums should have the final say on who wins. That's also a wonderful way to shun new audiences. :D :D

The voting lets people dip in and get a taste for the brilliance that is the DC. Most people would not want to jump into a conversation as, er, special, as this one.

Hmm... how about this:

Count the percentage of votes cast for a creature on the forums, and add that to the percentage of votes cast for that creature on mega-beast.com? The creature with the highest combined percentage wins?

I'm not sure if that idea makes sense, I'm having a very hard time holding my eyelids open right now.
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Post by auf_weiderzen » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:14 am

(Given my low post count, let's just write this post off as the idle ramblings of an Internet-assimilated geek. Oh, wait, that describes every forum poster here. :wink:)

Being relatively new to the Drabblecast, with the Round 1 voting for Mega-Beasts already underway, I was under the mistaken impression that the grand battle royal was going to be fodder for a future DC. The compiled votes would simply determine the winner, DC editors would determine the action. Between the Archives (and lack of an original story with Telephant reigning supreme), voting, and posting to the forums about a story, I discovered that the true fun of the Mega-Beast Deathmatch was in the forum. Sure ballot stuffing is integral to increasing readership, but the arguments are where the action happens.

As such, I believe that there is little value to any people who generally just lurk (such as myself) until they get into the forums. Oh sure, the event gets mentioned in DCs, and you can go vote, but unless the posts get read, I think that fewer people will see the entertainment value.

In conclusion (because this went on far too long already), maybe the best answer is to either mirror the forum posts on the voting/results page or to move the discussion there, but leave the voting mechanism the same. I would also advocate only letting registered users (i.e., those whose "care") post.

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Post by Mr. Tweedy » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:40 am

I like Tom's idea.

Keep the regular voting the way it is on mega-beasts.com, but also vote on the forums. Make it one vote per forumite, total, just like a normal poll. Then average the scores from the two sources (by percentage).

That way the evangelical aspect of voter recruiting is intact but discussion in the forum still matters. Best of both worlds.

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Post by delfedd » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:56 am

I have a feeling that I may be partially responsible for this subject being broached.

I dislike the system that we have currently. Definitely. However, I don't think that changing it in the middle of the competition is the right answer. I say we chew on it for a year, figure out a better method.

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Post by normsherman » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:55 am

I am, of course, simply delighted that there is any sort of outrage over this.

These are all good suggestions and very eloquently put- I shall discuss with Bo and editors.

For me the fun is in reading the forum debate, doing the cast itself and scrambling at the end a bit- like an ebay auction. Last round I was talked out of voting for each by forum discussion at least once and ended up goin with Sackoon the last 5 days because Sanitee seemed done for. In all fairness maybe Sackoon (or Sanitee!) would have taken this on a corruption-free system....but then I think SnowMan would have also taken round 1 d on that system, so then I'm 1/1 again...

all I know is shit is gonna hit the fan the final round, cuz ain't no compromisin then bitchez....
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Post by tbaker2500 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:29 pm

delfedd wrote:I have a feeling that I may be partially responsible for this subject being broached.

I dislike the system that we have currently. Definitely. However, I don't think that changing it in the middle of the competition is the right answer. I say we chew on it for a year, figure out a better method.
A year? We have to wait another YEAR to start whining like bitches again?

Man, who am I going to take my anger out on while waiting??
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Post by delfedd » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:20 pm

Speaking of whining :D

Where is round three?

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Post by tbaker2500 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:21 pm

delfedd wrote:Speaking of whining :D

Where is round three?
Bo said he was out of town, and round tre would be a few days late.

Tom
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back

Post by StalinSays » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:11 pm

Howdy everybody. I have returned from the wilds. Good thread, good discussion.

So I've been talking things over with Norm and my IT buddy Chris (who helps run Mega-beasts.com with me), and from what's been said here, and what's possible, we came up with a consensus solution.

Firstly, we'll be starting round 3 later tonight when I finally get home and share some 'alone time' with the missus (AKA Photoshop). Art is drawn, bios approved, just needs wrangling to get finished. We're going to proceed with r3 in the same format as r1 and r2. We thought it'd be a disconnect to swerve now; it is preferable that third shiny, new hybrid beast be forged of the same iron as his competitors. What we can and will do is put a tighter vice on the site voting mechanism.

Looking at IP's, there was a couple spots where we found 'suspect' voting taking place. It speaks well of our community here that nothing blatantly fraudulent could be observed (aka 19 votes in 5 minutes etc.), but there are areas that left us to consider fixes. A 'cookie clearing' hack was possible, and may have been used in an inconspicuous fashion. Because of this, and to ensure there are no sour grapes involved with round 3, Chris and I are putting in place a user agent string sniffer. Hopefully, people that share an IP or family connection, or that are using the allowed browser based vote hike, will see no change. Anyone wishing to feverishly drop 20 last minute votes from a single source however shall be censored.

Secondly, Norm and I hashed out an exciting new twist to the finals voting. It won't be obtrusive to the flow, as the finals have always been meant to exist as 'their own thing,' and it won't throw the current system for a total loop, which is important for maintaining new recruits, and keeping procedures clear (too much complexity would be the death of it all). Bottom-line: Drabblecast and Mega-Beast fans participating on a higher plain of interaction will have their voices heard louder, yet it won't require us to take our ball home, or silence the new kids.

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Post by AynSavoy » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:31 pm

I see two issues at play in this debate:

1. Participants with access to more computers get more say
2. The debate in the forums isn't necessarily reflected in the vote/result

Regarding the first issue, what is considered "legal" voting came up during this past round and Bo answered pretty clearly (once per browser, per computer, per user, per day; recruiting/bribing friends/family members/co-workers, if I remember correctly). If the members of the community no longer feel this is fair, we could try to influence a change in rules. It would definitely be an honor system--it would be nearly impossible to enforce a one-vote-per-person-per-day system, even if we made voters register. However, I feel that it would probably work pretty well, considering that those of us who about this will follow the rules because we want this to be the best competition it can be, and those who aren't that involved won't care enough to break the rules. But, anything we/the editors decided would have to be made clear, and of course there would be the risk of dishonorable participants. (And I think that recruiting loved ones to vote should still be legal.)

As for the question of how to get the forum debate integrated... Firstly, I do think that it should. As someone who doesn't have a ton of time/interest in posting regularly during the debate but still wants a say, though, I wouldn't want it to be something that totally trumped the regular voting--we want casual DCers to participate, and I feel that you should be allowed to vote--without ridicule--for an underdog.
tbaker2500 wrote:Hmm... how about this:

Count the percentage of votes cast for a creature on the forums, and add that to the percentage of votes cast for that creature on mega-beast.com? The creature with the highest combined percentage wins?
I think something along these lines is the way to go about it. The question for me is, how do you determine those percentages, exactly? How do the extra votes get determined? I don't think it can be just be by number of votes, since it would be easy to spam the thread with support for your champion, and additionally there are some posts that don't favor one competitor clearly. One extra vote per strong argument in favor of a single competitor? I'm not exactly sure how it would play out, but that's where my mind is.


All of this being said, I agree with those who say we shouldn't change anything this year, except perhaps make it clearer what does and doesn't count as legal voting. It's too late in the game for a major rehaul of the system.

One way we could possibly get the forums in the game, though, is to post some of the more interesting arguments from the forum on the voting page every couple of days. That way voters can get a taste of the action without having to slog through the forum post or having to wait for the podcast.
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new set-up

Post by normsherman » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:47 pm

Gonna keep an eye on the round 3 votes, keep things on the level. You guys will be pretty pumped for the finals set-up. Keep the discussion going though, we're stealing ideas.. I mean 'perfecting the craft.'
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dear diary,

Post by confusedgreen » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:10 am

Side note: I listened to the deathmatch podcasts for the first time tonight, and I must say, they're freakin' hilarious!

Anyway, I voted for both night owl and sackoon (although I only called in for sackoon b/c i couldn't come up with anything witty to say for night owl). I don't really have an original point here, just wanted to say voting seemed a bit crooked, I agree with the need for changes.
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