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Scraptor vs. Armourdillo vs. Sharkitraz vs. Pandemic

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:59 pm
by normsherman
ROUND 3 - ALL IS LAID TO WASTE

Though the Death-Match field has become a veritable rain forest of blood mist, eye ball goo, and spilled bile, the violence continues. From the darkest corners of the globe, the forgotten epochs, and the sublime terror of the collective unconscious itself, 4 hungry gladiators emerge. Who duh' man? Scraptor, the re-animated scourge with blood as cold as his logic, Armourdillo, the massive, impenetrable brute, worshiper of the blade, Sharkitraz, ever-moving ex-con eater of extremities, or Pandemic, spongy typhoid harry: the puke-bringer.

[EDIT] removed draft dossiers - see voting site for official super animal descriptions

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:43 pm
by delfedd
Lets see what I think.

Unfortunately, despite its coolness Scraptor looks like the weakest one in this competition. The fact that it has an extra weak point on it's lung is compounded by the fact that it has no ability to hunt on its own. This is sad, because I voted for the raptor.

I'll do a more detailed breakdown later tonight. For now, I'm watching heroes with friends.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:47 pm
by strawman
Scraptor is, on reflection, stronger than Sharkitraz, who doesn't even have height and weight listed, who has to move to maintain circulation, can't hear, and has an Achilles nose, bounds around like a penguin. His main strength is bad aura mojo and wrenching teeth.
Scraptor is the biggest, heaviest of the bunch. Now since he may suffer meltdown if he encounters logical inconsistency, that may happen just from meeting Sharkitraz who, if he's anything, he's a logical inconsistency.
I gotta say, if you stack these beasts up strength to strength and weakness to weakness, Pandemic wins hands down. All he has to do is SHOW UP, and the bacteria do his fighting for him. He matches up even with Armordillo, but since Armordilla is fearful of perceived sorcery, what is more apparently sorcery than contracting the Plague from the copious vomit of Pandemic? His masterful fighting skill and savage resolve soon lose the war of attrition from Pandemic's Ebola phalanx.

Besides, we all know the only one who can take the Panda is The Champion.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:14 am
by Mr. Tweedy
I submit that Scraptor is immune to all disease, owing to his robotic nature. Nanobot produced by the cybernetic components can effectively fight off microbes. The sudden influx of microbes from a direct Pandemic vomit attack might temporarily overwhelm this defense, but the gradual wearing down from being in Pandemic's presence should not effect him.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 am
by strawman
Pandemic "weakens all opponents over time"...
Dominant in wars of attrition.

And scraptor is part living biomass, can have only partial immunity.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:33 am
by tbaker2500
Clarification needed:

Scrpator has a shoulder mounted laser site.

Whoopeee.

What's he going to do, do a powerpoint presentation on how to kill he enemy? :-)

Laser sites aren't really useful unless they aim something.

Pretty much the standard is Class IIIa, which can cause short-term eye damage if the opponent doesn't blink.

If you bumped it up to a Class V laser, now we're talking! But then it wouldn't be a laser Site as per se, but a laser weapon.

(sorry, it's my day job.)

BETTER BALANCING THROUGH CHEMISTRY

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:22 pm
by StalinSays
So here is a special bit for you forum participants, to satisfy those creative blood urges, as round 3 has been so slow in gestating.

BETTER BALANCING THROUGH CHEMISTRY

The dossiers listed at the beginning of this topic are temporarily malleable! We are trying to avoid another Hornaztee or Sanitee situation - we want all 4 competitors at an even footing (that in the mix, Skullverine style sweet spot). This round should be the most competitive yet, at a beast level, and we want your input.

If 1 of the 4 seems unable to keep pace, suggest who, and we'll drop, or refine a weakness or power. Also, in the case of say Scraptor's laser, where a more specific description is desirable, give your draft. If a power addition is small, and more just to be interesting, throw it out. How about a detachable goblin shark jaw for Sharkitraz - I'd consider it. When I can get this voting set, I'll consider the forum consensus revisions as a part of the official site dossiers. It will be battle law, and a usable point of discussion. The one caveat - this pencil art is final, so no adding a jet pack or any such business.

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:04 pm
by Mr. Tweedy
strawman wrote:Pandemic "weakens all opponents over time"...
Dominant in wars of attrition.

And scraptor is part living biomass, can have only partial immunity.
That can't means literally all. What if he had been fighting Skullverine (already dead) or Sackoon (metal and airtight)? It's fair that Pandemic could weaken opponents who are susceptible to germ warfare, but not all are. I think Scraptor's vulnerability is limited, as I said, because his cybernetic parts can produce medicines to heal and defend his organic parts. Direct contact with Pandemic's fluids could temporary overwhelm this defense with the sheer volume of disease germs, but just being in his presence won't do anything to him.

Geez. Some people just don't understand cybernetic raptors. What do they teach in school these days?

About this match...

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:27 pm
by jonathancg
I've been following the matches so far with much interest, so much so that you guys are distracting me from my writing. But I'm able to press on, as I have huge quantities of sweet, sweet iron in my blood.

I'm familiar with the capabilities of dinosaurs and sharks -- having "self-educated" myself about them. I say "self-educated" because it sounds better than simply implying I'm some nerd who probably watches and reads too damn much about nature-related dreck. Not that I don't. Yeah.

Some of you might even be familiar with Tex, Jersey and Dakota, three fictional troodons from my tale "Tex's Last Run". As we saw in that piece, don't underestimate dinosaurs, especially pack hunters.

Seriously -- dinosaurs improve everything they're a part of. Don't believe me? Imagine the Olympics for a moment. They're doing some obscure, boring event like synchronized camel racing. The first place guy rounds a corner and then -- bam -- a Styracosaurus charges his ass. Instant improvement.

So it's with a heavy heart that I have to say Scraptor doesn't have a chance here. Yes, he has size, but a single raptor, even Utahraptor, instantly takes an efficiency hit when working solo. Raptors are ambush predators. For a slugfest, you need an allosaurus, and if you're looking to go up against Armourdillo, you really should have come back with a ankylosaurus. An anky would put a nice dent in that armor.

Couple this with a few other things -- 1) the Raptor's tell is rigid bone. He can't bend it, so bye-bye spike usefulness. 2) He's down a lung, affecting his oxygen load-out and thus his endurance. 3) He now probably sounds like a John Deere on full honk thanks to the cybernetics, so his chance at ambushing is nil. This leaves him with incredible jumping ability and a laser pointer, as referenced above. I see him doing damage in this fight, but not winning. Take him back to round one, and I think he would have had a much better chance. But here, he just doesn't have the staying power.

The Sharkitaz has similar issues, but -- similar to the Raptor -- is suffering from the same effect the Russians employed in WWII's winter combat. If you'll recall, the Germans were a better fighting force, but the Ruskies were completely integrated with the battlefield. As these fights are in large part about who is in their element, the weak-minded, disoriented shark is toast. His most effective method of attack -- his teeth -- also exposes his biggest weakness. Great whites have been turned away by the weakest of jabs at their eyes, too -- and his are highly exposed. Again, he might do some damage, and I wouldn't want to melee with him. But he's just outclassed here.

Pandemic is essentially a walking hand grenade with a long fuse. Killing his opponents "within minutes" would be terrific if they didn't shred him first. He's perhaps the best spoiler here for Armourdillo, but Pandemic is simply going to get torn to shreds before his diseases take effect. When your main offense consists of relying on someone kicking your ass first, you have problems.

So it's Armourdillo, in all likelyhood. He has slow speed, but this fight is all about staying power. Against all the other competitors, he's the only one that isn't squishy. If we're playing paper, rock, scissors, sledgehammer, he's the latter.

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:22 pm
by strawman
Good analysis, up to a point.
Armordillo may take down Pandemic, but you've conceded that's only because the virus can't act as quickly, which means that the last one standing may be Armordillo. BUT, he won't be around to compete in the next round, will he? This is the mutual assured destruction scenario.

The only chance for any survivors in this round is if they can somehow quarantine Pandemic behind an iron curtain, which would produce a draw, until after 70 years or so, he collapsed from within.

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:26 pm
by jonathancg
That's what I'm dealing with as well. Pandemic's like a time bomb in this match. He's a bit annoying, because he's posthumously going to 86 anyone that ends up winning.

If you guys are looking for ways to even things out, I'd say:

1) Give Scraptor a real laser. That will give him a hit-and-run ranged capability in addition to melee abilities. This will also scare the bejeezus out of Armourdillo, when he sees that evil sorcery.

2) The shark gains the ability to tunnel underground or through solid concrete (at a slower speed), but his fin is always exposed, and victims typically hear music as he draws into range.

3) Instead of Pandemic being slow-kill, give him the power to inflict a specific disease on demand via highly innacurate, thrown projectiles. For example, he gets the ability to induce instant diphtheria or rapid necrosis or something if he hits you with one of these things.

4) Armourdillo becomes highly vulnerable and totally blind when crossing any form of concrete or asphalt surface.

Edit: By the way, this art if friggin' incredible. Nice job dude!

hmm...

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:48 pm
by StalinSays
jonathancg wrote:1) Give Scraptor a real laser. That will give him a hit-and-run ranged capability in addition to melee abilities.
I'm down with that. Tbaker - we giving him the keys to easy street with a fireable laser? What type would you recommend.
jonathancg wrote:2) The shark gains the ability to tunnel underground or through solid concrete (at a slower speed), but his fin is always exposed, and victims typically hear music as he draws into range.
Like that as well. Not too much like Death Mole with this power is he guys? Tunneling does go with the prisoner theme. Might stick with seeing the fin, but not the music. Oh, and no concrete - after lots of speculation, we set up an official arena here:

http://www.mega-beasts.com/arena.php

jonathancg wrote:3) Instead of Pandemic being slow-kill, give him the power to inflict a specific disease on demand via highly innacurate, thrown projectiles. For example, he gets the ability to induce instant diphtheria or rapid necrosis or something if he hits you with one of these things.
Well, he has a projectile in vomit, and in my mind, the cough is his means of disease delivery. As I see it, the slow-kill thing is a must, for his place in the mix - Scraptor and Sharkitraz already fling around, he informs the Indomitable Snow Man part of the equation. Do we like the idea of specific disease delivery?
jonathancg wrote:4) Armourdillo becomes highly vulnerable and totally blind when crossing any form of concrete or asphalt surface.
No concrete, so Absorption Man style powers would poorly suit him: he could be sandy earth, stream pebbles, or tree wood, all seem less desirable to his normal form. How about temporarily hardening to stone? What do you think peoples?

Oh, and thanks - still a little ashamed the art is taking so long.

Re: Scraptor vs. Armourdillo vs. Sharkitraz vs. Pandemic

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:52 pm
by AynSavoy
Scraptor:
normsherman wrote: * May suffer meltdown if confronted with logical inconsistency
Armourdillo:
normsherman wrote: * Is fearful of perceived 'sorcery'
My question: how debilitating are these qualities, in each case? Does a shark with arms throw Scraptor into a mechanical meltdown? Does a walking plague turn Armoudillo into a quivering pansy?

Discuss.

Re: hmm...

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:26 am
by tbaker2500
StalinSays wrote:
jonathancg wrote:1) Give Scraptor a real laser. That will give him a hit-and-run ranged capability in addition to melee abilities.
I'm down with that. Tbaker - we giving him the keys to easy street with a fireable laser? What type would you recommend.
Well, the classic way of limiting laser effectiveness is by taking time between shots.

Laser of that power aren't solid-state, they require gas-filled lasing chamber. So that means a good impact would break the laser.

How about 1 shot every 10 seconds, each shot being powerful enough to cause the equivalent of a bite wound?

I don't think this gives him too much power, since it's reallyy hard to hit with a laser.

Re: Scraptor vs. Armourdillo vs. Sharkitraz vs. Pandemic

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:10 pm
by StalinSays
AynSavoy wrote:how debilitating are these qualities, in each case? Does a shark with arms throw Scraptor into a mechanical meltdown? Does a walking plague turn Armourdillo into a quivering pansy?
As far as my original intent goes, neither are crippling. Really, they were created as red herrings that creative speculators could latch on to.

For example, say Scraptor fought Night Owl (I know, I know, not this round, but any way), and fired uselessly against a shadow duplicate, it might throw off his internal logic and send sparks out the side of his head (does not compute!). Think of the crying robots in that first golden future episode of the Simpsons where Lisa is marrying Hugh Grant (too remote a reference... nah).

To put context to Armourdillo's superstitions, he could be 'spooked' and lose some of his resolve when presented by technology. This is designed to make Scraptor his foil. If said raptor fired a laser at him, he'd believe him a powerful wizard, and drop in fearlessness quotient. I don't perceive Pandemic as throwing him - they had sick people in the hazy medieval otherworld 'dillo hails from, and of course, land sharks too.
tbaker2500 wrote:How about 1 shot every 10 seconds, each shot being powerful enough to cause the equivalent of a bite wound?

I don't think this gives him too much power, since it's reallyy hard to hit with a laser.
Sounds good to me. Reminds me of R.O.B's laser in Super Smash Brother's Brawl - so obviously I like it.

votin' fixed

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:21 pm
by StalinSays
So we got our voting fix rigged up last night: live voting should at last begin tonight (friday). I'm going to check with the editors, and see if we can get this round extended, so it has the same full 2 weeks as its predecessors. Sharkitraz deserves better.

Once the voting is live, you guys can private (or public, whatever) message me if you notice any issue that prevents a legal vote from being cast. I've tested it, seems fine, multi-browser works, cookie clear doesn't. A potential quirk might come about if too many aggregates voters slow down the checking mechanism, so if ever the site seems unusually slow, contact me too.

Thanks for waiting :wink:

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:11 am
by tbaker2500
Ok, I voted for Amourdillo. I can't say I wanted to, but he seems the most likely to win, because he is so heavily armored and armed.

Help convince me otherwise!

Any chance that Armourdillo perceives ALL the opponents as magical and unsettling? They are kinda weird. (Unlike him, of course. He's just a normal everyday Armourdillo.)

Oh and Bo- You have time-controlling abilities linked to eyesight under Weaknesses of Pandemic. I think that's a leftover from Chronocerous?

yeah, still cleaning

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:29 pm
by StalinSays
Yeah, still cleaning up, didn't notice that so thanks for the shout out. Just about to update the dossier info with our new forum created concepts, and fix some links and dates. Oh, and PS, the better balancing through chemistry submission period is over.

So ya'll know: voting is official and live - we had one dead week while the team recoperated, now we roll for the full 2 weeks (round 3 ends, and the finals begin at the witching hour, September 6th). I'd like to say this all happened because we're trying to apply occult numerology ordering so summon the God head, but the delay was just a couple coincidental, concurent vacations within the team.

Edit: Bo's Maths are no good - voting should end the 6th, not the 13th.

dead dillo

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:55 pm
by confusedgreen
tbaker2500 wrote:Ok, I voted for Amourdillo... Help convince me otherwise!
That's easy: Pandemic pokes him in the belly and gives him super, super AIDs.

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:16 pm
by AynSavoy
I agree that Armourdillo is a really strong competitor, but I'll make the argument for Pandemic that he's so gross that the other competitors would just as soon not touch him. They'll stay away from him as long as they can, fighting each down until only one (Armourdillo) remains. Armourdillo is, at that point, weakened from both battle and exposure via proximity to Pandemic. Then it only takes a few good bouts of projectile vomiting (the vomit can leak under armor, of course) to take out the 'dillo.

Man, I was about to eat lunch, but I don't know anymore...