Where are the moderators?

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Mr. Tweedy
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby Mr. Tweedy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:26 am

My real name is Joshua Hugo, in case anyone didn't know. I always use the same alias.
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby F5iver » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:32 am

eric_marsh wrote:One of the problems with the internet is that it provides a shield of anonymity and as a result people often don't behave with the same courtesy on-line as they would in the real world. I realized that one back in the days of usenet and I also realized that sometimes you actually meet the folks your chatting with on-line in the real world. That has the potential for embarrassment or worse.

The conclusion that I came to is that the right thing for me to do is to always try to act as if I expected to meet the person I'm chatting with to for lunch the next day. Also I use my real name on-line because it does a lot to remove that anonymity I mentioned. If I need to hide behind an alias so that I can say something then I probably shouldn't be saying it in the first place.


This is a wonderful policy. I have the added incentive of not having students find info about me that could get me fired. I don't keep my name a secret, but I try to keep students from googling my name and finding material that is just plain none of their business.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby alhilton » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:59 am

I'm always Abbie Hilton. A forum where people would use that to hurt me would not be worth my participation. Besides, I play online to get my name out as an author. Hiding it would defeat the purpose.

The only time I feel like I have to muddy things is when I want to talk about some a specific case in the hospital. HIPAA could get me in trouble there, but it's usually easier to disguise the patient's identity than mine.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby tbaker2500 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:04 am

I believe you all know my name by now, but again it's Tom Baker. I'm a 31 year old single male, Born and raised in West Lafayette, IN, home of Purdue university. This location has its fair share of the smartest people you'll ever meet, the best people you'll ever meet (note how I separated the two), and some of the biggest bigots and asshole you'll meet.

I would like to explain myself. I feel that ROU jumped in to defend me, and I feel the need to explain myself. If you want to boot me for this, fine, do it, but I am going to name names.

This forum does one thing well. It fosters creativity. When ASID came on board, I was quick to learn that he was very abrasive. It wasn't but a few days into his postings of twabbles, that he was critiquing other, new posters, on why their twabbles were bad. This got under my skin. One posting was especially offensive, and I PM'd him about it. He appeared surprised that his critique was offensive, but he saw what I meant, and he apologized to the author. Time went by. Later, the pattern of being critical emerged, and I became concerned about how newcomers would feel coming here.

I realize that any real author would consider ASID's criticism christmas in comparison to an editor. But there was no distinguishing between established authors and new teenagers trying their hand at it. Considering Twabbles are the starting place of most new authors here, this became very worrisome to me. However, I am busy, I'm not a moderator, and I pushed it under the rug. It was my problem.

When some of the things came out of his mouth recently, I lost it. To my brain,
Do you deserve to be murdered? Raped maybe? No.
Likewise you do not deserve Democrats. Evil creeps in, thus we have guns.

Has no justification. Period.

I apologize for my outburst, and I am sorry I made people uncomfortable. But I am not sorry that I took a stand against this type of post. Why did I do it in public? Because if I wrote ASID in private, it would appear that I considered this acceptable behavior. Public silence is acceptance.

I my perfect world, ASID would respect the community he came into, rather than dominate it. We are not all as tough skinned as some.

I'm sorry for my outburst. I am fiercely protective of this place.
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby alhilton » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:37 am

ASID has apparently come to us from the land of "political and philosophical groups," where extreme hyperbole, personal attack, and kick'em while they're down is the norm. Those forums are to DC forums what prison is to civilian life. Things you do to survive in prison are not acceptable when walking around the park. This is the park. If you start waving a knife and screaming, "I'll cut you! I'll cut you!" most of us are just going to back away slowly. A few may try to take the knife away before you hurt someone.

So, everyone just take a deep breath. ASID, you are not being universally ignored, at least not yet. There's no "us" and "them" here. There's just us.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:43 am

I think a careful review of the thread will show that I was among the first to welcome many new twabblers.
Any "criticism" -- of first-time twabbles, at least -- was always carefully constructive.

It always seems to be a fine art, on a writers forum, to tell those who only want cheer-leading from those that want every bit of craft-honing feedback they can get. If I have misjudged, I apologize.

I am abrasive and working on a more restrained approach is my biggest personal challenge. I apologize for ruffling several feathers more than I intended, but I do not accept all of Mr. Baker's assertions or methods.

This will be my last response to Mr. Baker on this or related subjects.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby alhilton » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:48 am

tbaker2500 wrote:I believe you all know my name by now, but again it's Tom Baker. I'm a 31 year old single male, Born and raised in West Lafayette, IN, home of Purdue university.


Hey, Tom, I lived in West Lafayette for a short while. I got into the veterinary school there and spent a semester convincing myself that I didn't want to be a vet (too much debt, too little pay, never any time off). Cool town, though, and VERY cool anatomy lab. The ponies were on tracks in the ceiling with a bolt through the skull and a bolt through the pelvis. You wheeled them in and out of the walk-in freezer. It's really tough to get preservative all the way through a horse, and you hit sections that aren't treated. It was like Dante's inferno in there when everyone was working on them. Blood running in the gutters, and the smell....! Quite the lab. Anyone, those my memories of Purdue.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:51 am

alhilton wrote:So, everyone just take a deep breath. ASID, you are not being universally ignored, at least not yet. There's no "us" and "them" here. There's just us.


Thanks. It's good to know that there are some boots in reserve. They're not ALL being applied to my head, ribs, and <never mind>, yet. :D

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby Mr. Tweedy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:13 am

Hmm.... There have been 4 posts since I started writing this. See, I really can't keep up! I'm a horrible moderator! Anyway, here's what I wrote, in response to Tom's latest:

----------------------------------------

Ha ha ha ha! Ban Saint Tom? That's crazy. That would be like, uh, like, uh, like canning that fat dude who hung out with McGuyver… Uh…

Anyway, you're complaints are mostly valid, and mostly already noted, I think. (And I'm right, because it says "czar" by my picture.) All I can say for ASID's comment is that I understand what he means, but that it was a piss poor way to say it, and it probably wasn't an idea that should have been communicated in that context, even if it had been with tact. The greater sin was in defending the comment and insulting others for not "getting" it rather than admitting it was a stupid thing to say and apologizing. ASID will be much more careful with both the tone and content of his remarks in the future or face (real) banning.

If I may speak in for a moment in ASID's defense, I think I understand where he's coming from. He is (I believe) a grizzled veteran of much rougher forums where the sorts of insults he used are a matter of course. This does not make his language acceptable, but I think he means less evil by it than might be apparent. If I believed he was actually trying to say that you are a wicked bastard who condones things like rape and murder, he'd be canned, but I don't think that's what he was getting it. As I said, I'm more concerned with the continuing to defend a stupid statement than with the statement itself.

As to your other complaints about the general tone and, uh, aura(?) of ASID, I can only say I disagree. Really, to be honest (and I wouldn't otherwise be mentioning this) I find your sunny optimism to be just as grating as you find ASID's negativity. I don't like sunny optimism, especially if I'm on the receiving end. I always figure if something isn't getting at least a little detraction, people must just be pretending they like it, which means it must suck. I always feel more comfortable if people have some bad things to say about me mixed in with the good. It makes me feel like they're being honest with me.

My point is that I think negative/positive vibe people give off and perceive is often just a factor of personality. You've been mad at me before for being too negative, but I don't try to be, and I know that your perpetual positivity usually isn't fake, even though that's how it may strike me. And now I'm embarrassed because I sound like a flipping' Disney character, but here it goes: We just need to learn how other people are and adjust our perceptions accordingly. What one person perceives as harsh and negative may be intended as respectful and appreciative, and what one person perceives as merely "polite" praise may be intended as sincere encouragement. We need to be aware of our differences and try to understand what is meant.

I will now write the word "fuck" to shake off the coating of "family friendly" I just got on myself. That's better.

And now back to ASID: Algy, dude, work on your perceptivity. If your words are just pissing people off and not communicating, then quit!

I'm not under the impression that anything I say here is going to erase everybody's frown lines or make a rainbow arc overhead, but here's a final statement from your czar: Forget about this. Stupid crap was said. Check. Certain people need to watch themselves in the future. Check. If something on that scale happens again, there will be serious consideration of banning. Check. But I think that the foundation of respect and good humor that has made this place fun for two years is still intact and everybody can move forward on it. So I would ask everyone to do so without throwing constant glances over your shoulders back at the infamous December of 2009.

And, ASID, it would be nice if you'd apologize. Not for being a flaming right-winger, but for being an insensitive jerk about it. You aren't necessarily the only person who owes apologies, but you owe to the most people. So, your friendly czar requests that you say a few words in the interest of preserving the Jelly Park vibes. (You don't have to, but there it is.)
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby TheJebi » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:33 am

Algernon Sydney is Dead wrote:I think a careful review of the thread will show that I was among the first to welcome many new twabblers.
Any "criticism" -- of first-time twabbles, at least -- was always carefully constructive.

It always seems to be a fine art, on a writers forum, to tell those who only want cheer-leading from those that want every bit of craft-honing feedback they can get. If I have misjudged, I apologize.

When I posted my first twit-fic, ASID was the first to respond, and he was very supportive, but also provided helpful comments, mostly about punctuation and other stuff like that. My point is that he did make me feel quite welcome around here.
And, as I've said before, I have greatly enjoyed battling with him in twabble form, it was fun when he disagreed with my pint of view, because it gave me fodder to came back at him with, and I am sure we managed to keep it civil, and entertaining for other readers, or at least that's what comments said.

But if I had first come to this forum during the middle of that absurd flame war, I might not have posted at all.

So anyways, I am getting very bored with this whole subject, (you might even say it's boorish) and I suggest we all move on as quickly as possible. :)
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby Mr. Tweedy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:37 am

Pint of view? Sounds refreshing.
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby Algernon Sydney is Dead » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:43 am

Mr. Tweedy wrote:And, ASID, it would be nice if you'd apologize. Not for being a flaming right-winger, but for being an insensitive jerk about it. You aren't necessarily the only person who owes apologies, but you owe to the most people. So, your friendly czar requests that you say a few words in the interest of preserving the Jelly Park vibes. (You don't have to, but there it is.)


I thought I had apologized several times in several posts. What did I miss?

I am also sorry for: stirring up or sustaining trouble, "harshing people's mell", and being too quick to pounce.

I should have cheered more and criticized less. I should have assumed more misunderstanding, and less deceit.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby Mr. Tweedy » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:02 am

Well, in answer to the question, I was thinking of something concise and forthright, as opposed to scattered here and there, mixed with other remarks.
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby tbaker2500 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:15 am

Mr. Tweedy wrote:As to your other complaints about the general tone and, uh, aura(?) of ASID, I can only say I disagree. Really, to be honest (and I wouldn't otherwise be mentioning this) I find your sunny optimism to be just as grating as you find ASID's negativity. I don't like sunny optimism, especially if I'm on the receiving end. I always figure if something isn't getting at least a little detraction, people must just be pretending they like it, which means it must suck. I always feel more comfortable if people have some bad things to say about me mixed in with the good. It makes me feel like they're being honest with me.

My point is that I think negative/positive vibe people give off and perceive is often just a factor of personality. You've been mad at me before for being too negative, but I don't try to be, and I know that your perpetual positivity usually isn't fake, even though that's how it may strike me. And now I'm embarrassed because I sound like a flipping' Disney character, but here it goes: We just need to learn how other people are and adjust our perceptions accordingly. What one person perceives as harsh and negative may be intended as respectful and appreciative, and what one person perceives as merely "polite" praise may be intended as sincere encouragement. We need to be aware of our differences and try to understand what is meant.


Dude, I haven't seen you trash an author in ages! What the heck's wrong with you? :D

Tweedy, despite our distinct difference, I think I'll always consider you a friend. I've quite enjoyed our different views on the world.

I think it goes to show that I'm open enough to work well with people who are different than me, but I have yet to learn how to work with people who are very different than me. Always something to strive for, eh?
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby eric_marsh » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:17 am

Seems to me that everyone has had an opportunity to express their feelings on this matter. I've seen Algy acknowledge that perhaps he might have done things in a better manner several times and I think he expressed a willingness to do so. At some point it's necessary to move forward and move beyond things.

We all have our failings. By recognizing that in ourselves perhaps we can also be more accepting of the failings of our brethren. If everyone has had an opportunity to vent and get some things off our respective chests would it be possible for us all to learn a thing or two from this experience and collectively put it behind us?

Just a thought. I'd just hate to see this thing dragged on forever.
Life is a tragedy for those who feel, but a comedy to those who think. - Horace Walpole
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby tbaker2500 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:25 am

I love your cat's mustache. I've never been able to grow one like that.
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby alhilton » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:29 am

Not everyone's a Democrat, not everyone's Republican,
not everyone's a patriot, not everyone's American.
It don't matter if your a pansy-ass liberal,
It don't matter if you ride around on camels,
It don't matter if you mutilate your genitals,
It don't matter if your in a tribe of cannibals,
Cause baby, there's no need to fight,
There's still one little reason we should all unite-

Everybody's got nipples
Everybody's got two of them
Unless you maybe have a birth defect
Or had to surgically remove them


And now you have that song stuck in your heads. :D We came here because we like stuff produced by the guy who wrote this song.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby eric_marsh » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:31 am

It's all in the genetics. Interspecies breeding with seven dimensional monsters does a lot to promote the proper development of a tentacled stash. It's very fashionable, yes?
Life is a tragedy for those who feel, but a comedy to those who think. - Horace Walpole
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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby ROU Killing Time » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:33 am

Anyone who's listened to episode #137 knows my name is Steve Lidster. Like Abby, (but nowhere nearly as far along) I'm following my aspirations to be a writer.

As has been well documented by my obviously verbose nature and tendency to share, perhaps too much, about my life, I deal with a major mental disorder on a day by day basis. I credit 95 percent of the success I have in maintaining lucidity to the support of people in my personal life and also here on this forum, which truly is a magical place.

Tom is in the top ranks of those here who have become friends in a manner that is anything but virtual.

Like Tom, I also came from a "silence is acceptance" standpoint. I also believe that ASID strongly believes in avoiding "silence as acceptance" too, albeit from a different perspective, and I do respect that aspect of him, even though obviously I took exception to his message, or his framing of that message.

I suppose the point I was trying to make was that if liberalism is inherently evil and conservatism inherently good, in a black and white sense then people on the left are either a)evil, b)stupid, c)irrelevant, or d)crazy. I suppose I have to cop to option "d" myself, but I can see why level-headed Tom would feel slapped in the face for being placed in categories a, b, or c, and why he would be concerned about the impact on other liberal drabblecast fans.

Water over the dam, at this point and moving forward.

Tweedy, I do apologize for commenting on using the ignore feature, but I meant this as an assurance to the forum that I was actively being proactive to make sure that I had sent myself to the corner and put myself in timeout regarding ASID's posts.

I love my country, and I think Tom, Tweedy, Strawman, & ASID all love our country too, we may disagree on what's best for our country, or what the most pressing problems facing our country are, but that is because we are all different people with different perspectives and life experiences.

I made my apology for taking part in unpleasantness earlier, and I stand by that 100 percent.

The one thing that I absolutely do NOT apologize for is the bit about loving your friends being easy but loving your enemies being important.

That wasn't my idea. I learned that from Jesus, and as someone said once "Christ, ya know it ain't easy."
If that sounds preachy or pisses off the atheists, so be it. It used to piss me off when I was an atheist too.

I'll never be able to tell you how eternally gratefully I am to have been wrong about that, and how thankful that I had friends who were willing to let me be pissed off at them so that I had the message that there was someone to reach out to when I needed it most.

Merry Christmas, and God bless each and every one of us.
"Never fuck with The Culture"
Sublime In Peace Iain M. Banks.

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Re: Where are the moderators?

Postby tbaker2500 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:35 am

eric_marsh wrote:It's all in the genetics. Interspecies breeding with seven dimensional monsters does a lot to promote the proper development of a tentacled stash. It's very fashionable, yes?


Or your just ate a squid. :-)

Hey guys and gals, Don't forget the Norm's Christmas song from last year! http://www.gardenstreet.org/drabblecastarchive/Bbardles/files/A%20Drabblecast%20Christmas.mp3

No pressure to put out another one this year Norm, no pressure. I'm happy with a rerun.
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