MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Which Mega-Beast finalist are you voting for?

Scarho'tep
8
30%
Tristegotops
8
30%
Minotaurd
11
41%
 
Total votes: 27

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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by ejbman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:27 pm

Phenopath, yes there is some debate as to how the life force sucking mechanics actually work. Norm said that there has to be contact (thanks for the reminder jannypie), but then in the podcast, the guys said something about "Dark Crystal rules". So that does complicate things. As I mentioned, however, Scar could simply grip onto the back of Triste, clip off all the weaponry, climb forward and pry open the face shield, and suck away. On top of that, he could disorient Triste by doing it mid-air, clutching onto Triste and picking him up, flying upwards "effortlessly".

Even if Scar does turn out to be exothermic, he can confound the missles or redirect them with dust-devil power, or simply by remaining clutched onto Triste. Presumably, the missles have a fail-safe to keep them directed away from their source. If not, it could work in Scar's favor. He could lure the missles back at Triste, and then effortlessly flit away at the last second, when the missles make contact with Triste!
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by Phenopath » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:31 pm

Hmm, I just went to the stats pages to get some info on Minotaurd's aggression to refute the suggestion that he is purely defensive and all I got was some zen rock/goth/balance carp. I rescind my praise Bo.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by tbaker2500 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:13 pm

ejbman wrote:Even if Scar does turn out to be exothermic, he can confound the missles or redirect them with dust-devil power, or simply by remaining clutched onto Triste. Presumably, the missles have a fail-safe to keep them directed away from their source. If not, it could work in Scar's favor. He could lure the missles back at Triste, and then effortlessly flit away at the last second, when the missles make contact with Triste!
Are you seriously saying he can use dust devils to REDIRECT MISSILES?

I see nothing on the Stats page which says heat-seeking missiles. It says "Military Grade Ballistics". So one could easily argue that the missiles have proximity fuses with fragmentation damage, knocking the little bugger out of the sky.

With all this talk about Scar latching onto Triste's back- Did you forget the part about swinging a "Mighty, spiked tail"? Considering his metal plate armor, it would not be hard to smash Scar where he sits. In nature, tails are constantly used to flick off little buggers.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by dreamrock » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:23 pm

tbaker2500 wrote:With all this talk about Scar latching onto Triste's back- Did you forget the part about swinging a "Mighty, spiked tail"? Considering his metal plate armor, it would not be hard to smash Scar where he sits. In nature, tails are constantly used to flick off little buggers.
Horse and elephant tails, yeah. Dinosaurs, not so much. They've got to have way less tail mobility than even a dog. The reason I suggested just behind the crest of its back as a good striking point is because there is no conceivable way Tristen could strike its tail at Scar there.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by tbaker2500 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:33 pm

Now that is a more rational argument. But the question I have to ask, is can Scars claws really pierce the metal armor? There is no joint there, his head is inside the clamshell thingy.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by ejbman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:39 pm

Regarding the heat-seeking of the missles - that came out as a possibility in the podcast, an extrapolation of "Military Grade". But I take your point, they might not be. Regarding dust-devils - it's not just the dust devils themselves, but the mighty beat of the wings, which effortlessly lift the giant bug and then have enough power left over to generate dust devils. Thus, I refer to extra dust devil power - in addition to the normal jet-like thrust keeping 700lb beast effortlessly in the air - in thwarting missle exhaust and trajectory, especially when dealing with them at their source.

Also, I think the mighty spiked tail has nothing on Scar's 'ultra-tough exo-skeleton'. Even if Triste could reach all the way back on himself (and if he could, wouldn't he risk bashing his own weaponry into uselessness, much like the overkill used in the Monty Python skit you shared?), the level of torque he would need to not only reach, but then damage Scar would be impossible to achieve without folding himself in half. Even if you think a sweeping motion would do it, look at the "Terrible claws" on Scar! He'd just snip that tail right off!

Regarding the metallic armor plating, as depicted, it isn't well distributed. Scar's claws could rip hanks of flesh from Triste's flank, leaving gaps beneath which the terrible claws could get leverage on whatever straps are holding the armor in place, or at least leaving them mounted in a helter-skelter, unusable fashion.

It was mentioned in the podcast that Triste can retract his head into the Triceratops frontspiece, like the alien in Aliens could with its inner mouth. You can see the action here at about 1:02: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmzFfTES ... re=related So, there has to be a hinge of some kind, and I suspect that Scar could pry it open with his terrible claws, especially if he has maneuvered himself around to grasp Triste by the head and lift him up into the air.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by StalinSays » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:41 pm

Phenopath wrote:Hmm, I just went to the stats pages to get some info on Minotaurd's aggression to refute the suggestion that he is purely defensive and all I got was some zen rock/goth/balance carp. I rescind my praise Bo.
There was a debate over this, the death panel was split - numbered stats weren't dropped out of any lethargy on my part (I in fact am in the numbers camp). We're experimenting with a return to a season 1 style ambiguity, where you have measurements, and thats it. I cheated with TYPE, which suggests general behavior in battle. Should be self-explanitory in most cases: range likes staying at distance, balance does a bit of everything, defender defends, attacker attacks, and strategist is the special distinction for beasts with human like minds and ability to plot (Santiee, Infernowl, Velasquez). Affiliation means nothing, it just makes me laugh. It's the music to load your iTunes with if you need a soundtrack to compose your pro-specific-beast diatribes.

The gist of the stats free argument is that stats limit imagination and keep the debate from wild swings, making it less fun. AKA it puts peoples' thinking in a 'box.' For example, if someone was saying Minotaurd is faster than Scarho'tep due to his sandals, they have more wiggle room and can make a more compelling/interesting case than say 'Minotaurd's speed is a 10, Scarho'tep's is only a 7.' Granted without concrete numbers things can get frustrating, but then thats why we vote. I'd switch back if the wheels really come off (squeaky wheels), but for now the experiment continues.

Oh and thanks all - I wanted color on par with the cards.
tbaker2500 wrote:Now that is a more rational argument. But the question I have to ask, is can Scars claws really pierce the metal armor? There is no joint there, his head is inside the clamshell thingy.
He could pierce hide, with effort pierce bone, but not metal.
ejbman wrote:Phenopath, yes there is some debate as to how the life force sucking mechanics actually work. Norm said that there has to be contact (thanks for the reminder jannypie), but then in the podcast, the guys said something about "Dark Crystal rules". So that does complicate things.
Yes, we're contradicting ourselves somewhat, and complicating things. Ok, how about this as the official ruling - he needs contact. He has a Dracula'esque hypno gaze, compelling foes towards submission. A gaze not quite at the Sanitee level (not mind control), glamor as they call it on True Blood (or better D&D, I just like reminding myself that America's favorite vampire Soap has faeries and adheres to D&D principles). And he has a proboscis to spout, with which siphon psychic energy as he pleases. The proboscis having similar piercing potential to the claws. So yeah, physical contact, but not simply physical contact with any part of his body. Additionally, I want it to be clear he's somewhat prone when absorbing, but not completely so.

ejbman wrote:he beats his wings hard enough to LIFT Triste right off the ground
Both possible and totally awesome.

tbaker2500 wrote:Are you seriously saying he can use dust devils to REDIRECT MISSILES?
Not re-aim or completely deflect, but I could see redirection.

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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by ejbman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:44 pm

Phenopath wrote:Hmm, I just went to the stats pages to get some info on Minotaurd's aggression to refute the suggestion that he is purely defensive and all I got was some zen rock/goth/balance carp. I rescind my praise Bo.
Wait - where did you go? I usually go to megabeasts.com and click on the Stats & Info. I didn't get any zen rock/goth/balance 'carp'.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by Mikes » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:46 pm

ejbman wrote: mean, have you ever played catch with a dog, throwing one tennis ball, then throwing him a loop by adding a second ball (throwing them both at the same time)? The dog goes back and forth between the two balls at least three times before choosing the one to bring back. And that's an intelligent dog, not a dumb bovine! .
that example may work with barny the inbred chihauhua from down the street, but against a highly trained german shepherd. And mino's got a battleaxe. They don't just hand those you know.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by StalinSays » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:49 pm

ejbman wrote:
Phenopath wrote:Hmm, I just went to the stats pages to get some info on Minotaurd's aggression to refute the suggestion that he is purely defensive and all I got was some zen rock/goth/balance carp. I rescind my praise Bo.
Wait - where did you go? I usually go to megabeasts.com and click on the Stats & Info. I didn't get any zen rock/goth/balance 'carp'.
All info comes from that little pop up beneath the voting buttons. Last year the stats were more detailed, little number graphics, like what appear on the cards, and below:

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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by ejbman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:58 pm

Mikes wrote:
ejbman wrote: mean, have you ever played catch with a dog, throwing one tennis ball, then throwing him a loop by adding a second ball (throwing them both at the same time)? The dog goes back and forth between the two balls at least three times before choosing the one to bring back. And that's an intelligent dog, not a dumb bovine! .
that example may work with barny the inbred chihauhua from down the street, but against a highly trained german shepherd. And mino's got a battleaxe. They don't just hand those you know.
I don't know...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61DcO8R6lxc

Regarding the battleaxe - that's probably a liability. He'll probably just cut his own hoof off with it.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by jannypie » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:27 pm

The affiliations made me LOL too.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by Non-Euclidean Geo. » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:57 am

ejbman wrote:I mean, have you ever played catch with a dog, throwing one tennis ball, then throwing him a loop by adding a second ball (throwing them both at the same time)? The dog goes back and forth between the two balls at least three times before choosing the one to bring back. And that's an intelligent dog, not a dumb bovine! Mino won't have been able to make up his mind on what to do. He might be motivated - but motivated to do what? He lacks direction. He might react to threat, but I suspect he'll be defensive only, lacking a strategy to move forward.
No matter. The other two combatants will either be converging on each other or on Minotaurd. No tennis balls needed. Also, now that we know Minotaurd can fly (how could I have forgotten Merlin Olsen doing the FTD florist commercials? Hermes' sandals have wings!) Minotaurd is looking even harder to beat. We're not talking buzzing around, bumblebee flight like Skank-Ho-tep. This is super fast messenger of the gods flight. Nobody's sucking any 'Taurd life force.

But just for ha-ha's, let's say Skank-Ho does get some 'Taurd life force. Now they're both stupid. Advantage goes to Tritakeyourtopoff who's happily left to battle dumb and dumber. Although, how smart can a dinosaur be? This whole thing might devolve into a round robin of drool and nose-picking.

Don't celebrate for the dinosaur yet, though. Check this out: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010 ... esearchers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's right. Adult triceratops never existed. Mythology trumps bad paleontology. Point, match, set; Mintaurd.

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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by jannypie » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:00 am

Life force =/= intelligence. We've established that Scarhottie doesn't get any abilities from the other opponent, good or bad. He wouldn't get stupid.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by tbaker2500 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:28 am

ejbman wrote:Thus, I refer to extra dust devil power - in addition to the normal jet-like thrust keeping 700lb beast effortlessly in the air - in thwarting missle exhaust and trajectory, especially when dealing with them at their source.
Listen- you can't have it both ways. Either Scar is very maneuverable and can dodge missiles at will (he's been compared to trying to hit a mosquito), OR he is a 700lb monster.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by Non-Euclidean Geo. » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:17 am

jannypie wrote:Life force =/= intelligence. We've established that Scarhottie doesn't get any abilities from the other opponent, good or bad. He wouldn't get stupid.
Oops. Missed that little tidbit.

Scarhottie?

Quick question: Do the winners of each round take on the losers' strengths and weaknesses, or just the strengths?

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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by ejbman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:18 am

tbaker2500 wrote:
ejbman wrote:Thus, I refer to extra dust devil power - in addition to the normal jet-like thrust keeping 700lb beast effortlessly in the air - in thwarting missle exhaust and trajectory, especially when dealing with them at their source.
Listen- you can't have it both ways. Either Scar is very maneuverable and can dodge missiles at will (he's been compared to trying to hit a mosquito), OR he is a 700lb monster.
No, I don't see why I can't have it both ways. The stats specifically say that he is 700lbs AND that his flight is effortless. He just that powerful. Face it - he dominates all the others like the crazy god-insect from Lexx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apjMFCm4mb0
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by ejbman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:25 am

Non-Euclidean Geo. wrote: Also, now that we know Minotaurd can fly (how could I have forgotten Merlin Olsen doing the FTD florist commercials? Hermes' sandals have wings!) Minotaurd is looking even harder to beat. We're not talking buzzing around, bumblebee flight like Skank-Ho-tep. This is super fast messenger of the gods flight. Nobody's sucking any 'Taurd life force.

But just for ha-ha's, let's say Skank-Ho does get some 'Taurd life force. Now they're both stupid. Advantage goes to Tritakeyourtopoff who's happily left to battle dumb and dumber. Although, how smart can a dinosaur be? This whole thing might devolve into a round robin of drool and nose-picking.

Don't celebrate for the dinosaur yet, though. Check this out: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010 ... esearchers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's right. Adult triceratops never existed. Mythology trumps bad paleontology. Point, match, set; Mintaurd.
So what that Mino can fly? Like his weapons, that's just a liability that he can hurt himself with. He'll probably fly his own head into a rock, or impale himself on Scar's head spike, all the better for Scar to suck the life out of him. As mentioned, sucking that life will not make Scar dumber, just stronger. But I don't think Scar and Mino will even tangle. Either Mino will do himself in out of stupidity, or just get blown up as collateral damage.

And while it's good to know that Triste cannot even have existed, I think that just makes him more mythological - in line with his cohorts. That won't save him from the Wrath of Scarho'tep, who has all of eternity to enjoy his win.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by ejbman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:26 am

Non-Euclidean Geo. wrote:Quick question: Do the winners of each round take on the losers' strengths and weaknesses, or just the strengths?
Tends to be just the strengths, if prior years are any guage, but it is inconsistent.
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Re: MB4 R1 - Scarho'tep vs. Tristegotops vs. Minotaurd

Post by tbaker2500 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:27 am

ejbman wrote:No, I don't see why I can't have it both ways. The stats specifically say that he is 700lbs AND that his flight is effortless. He just that powerful. Face it - he dominates all the others like the crazy god-insect from Lexx http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apjMFCm4mb0
Well, this has degenerated into a pointless argument.
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